Cat hull spacing VS motion comfort?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by DennisRB, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,401
    Likes: 1,029, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Not intending to be antagonistic, but you have to agree that boats are pretty much the way they are for reasons of vast practical experience, and it is unlikely that some opportunity to make a quantum improvement has been missed, sure you can tailor-make to specific requirements, but the average user is who gets catered to by designers. It is just about meeting the market.
     
  2. DennisRB
    Joined: Sep 2004
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 27, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 228
    Location: Brisbane

    DennisRB Senior Member

    Thanks again Ad Hoc. Great link on stability.

    What do you think of the Bob Oram boat I pictured? Its 16m long, about 7m wide, has a small 16m rig and weighs around 6000kg. I like this style of cat. Its obviously very fast in a breeze, and excluding marina fees, maintenance costs are more like a 40 footer as its rigged and powered like one.

    I had a thought that this style would be more comfortable due to less corkscrewing thanks to the long hulls on what is really a smaller boat.
     
  3. DennisRB
    Joined: Sep 2004
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 27, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 228
    Location: Brisbane

    DennisRB Senior Member

    Once again.

    I only partially agree that boats are the way they are due to practical reasons. They are they way they are for commercial reasons, and those two things do not necessarily correlate. Fitting the most interior space into as short of a boat as possible has nothing to do with "vast practical experience" and has everything to do with extortionately priced marina fees.

    I said I partially agree because its true that "vast practical experience" in selling boats has come up with a certain style which works for sales. But I disagree this style of boat has anything to do with practical experience in actually sailing such an abortion of a vessel which cant sail out of its own way and just motors everywhere.
     
  4. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,401
    Likes: 1,029, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Well, marina fees are a practical matter that people are not prepared to ignore. The old hip-pocket nerve is very sensitive. There may be a niche you have identified, but would you gamble on there being enough like-minded buyers out there ?
     
  5. DennisRB
    Joined: Sep 2004
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 27, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 228
    Location: Brisbane

    DennisRB Senior Member

    Are you trolling or something? How many times do I need to clarify this boat is not for "people". Its for me.

    I want to sail around and live away from marinas. I am no stranger to this lifestyle having done it for several years. I am willing to ignore marina fees.

    I know what I have done and know what I want to do. That is to cover large distances quickly in a boat that is a pleasure to sail quickly in various sea states, with merely adequate accommodation.

    The market wants a short fat boat with heap of space inside. I get that. But its not my idea of the right boat for me.
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,401
    Likes: 1,029, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Relax Dennis, no hostility intended or implied !
     
  7. DennisRB
    Joined: Sep 2004
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 27, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 228
    Location: Brisbane

    DennisRB Senior Member

    I would be relaxed if you finally understood that I am not claiming to have come up with an "improved design to meet a niche market that I have identified for like minded buyers" FFS :p

    But I would certainly be more relaxed if I did not recently loose the boat in my avatar thanks to separation. That boat was pretty good for me. Crowther 2003 model 13.1m x 7m. It had more than enough space. I could do with less. The boat was heavy compared to modern fast cruisers, it could have done with some extra hull, and I actually planned to extend it to 14.9m. The rig was massive. 21m bridge clearance. It would sail circles around a commercially successful design. But I want more top/average speed. Luckily light weight is actually cheaper than a heavy boat since there is less material, provided you are under no illusion the interior space will be less.
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,401
    Likes: 1,029, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    As you realise, it would be a big job to have a boat designed and built to fit your particular preference, if there is nothing extant that suits.
     
  9. DennisRB
    Joined: Sep 2004
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 27, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 228
    Location: Brisbane

    DennisRB Senior Member

    Of course. But things do exist. I even showed a pic.

    Groper designed and built a successful boat. He learned what he had to along the way. I'm happy to just do a design concept at this stage using rules of thumb. Its fun, and should the chance arrive the boring non fun stuff can be worked out exactly with the appropriate knowledge, which can be learned or paid for.

    This thread has showed me that extending hulls while keeping beam the same may have good results for motion comfort by way of reducing the undesirable corkscrew motion wide cats can have. Other threads have showed me the overriding importance of displacement to length ratio when it comes to hull resistance and speed potential. Other threads again have highlighted the importance of LWL in providing better motion comfort and reduced pitching. I hardly know anything, but I have picked up a few things up during my 12 years on this forum. One of which is you better listen when Ad Hoc says something.
     
  10. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,188
    Likes: 1,109, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Dennis

    It seems that's all Mr E does....been down the same tired old route with him far too many times. Thus concluded as you did..merely trolling otherwise English cannot be his native language owing to the extremely poor comprehension.....it is one or tuther.
     
  11. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,188
    Likes: 1,109, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    This is where starts to go into the realms of personal choices and subjectivity rather than objective comments. As such we all have our own opines and none are any better or worse than others. Except if supported by independent evidence! Which one never gets on this forum...

    If YOU like her....that is all that matters, neh!
     
  12. DennisRB
    Joined: Sep 2004
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 27, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 228
    Location: Brisbane

    DennisRB Senior Member

    Rarely, but not never. I have quite the collection of whitepapers thanks to this forum. Usually posted by those who prefer real evidence over emotive reasons. I try to base my opinions on evidence as well as my limited knowledge allows, but sailing is largely an irrational pursuit to begin with..
     
  13. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 1,865
    Likes: 160, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 349
    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    One mans waste is another mans treasure, they are robust, proven and cheap to buy second hand and I was merely suggesting you may have found their nature agreeable. And no lets leave flexible beam connections in Wharrams I think.
    As for hemp rope well thats just disingenuous.
    Good luck in your search.
     
    1 person likes this.

  14. DennisRB
    Joined: Sep 2004
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 27, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 228
    Location: Brisbane

    DennisRB Senior Member

    Sure thing Red. I actually like the aesthetics of a stock Wharram cat. Very traditional nice looking boats. A used one could be an option if its cheap enough, but its not something I would like to spend a heap of money on or ever consider building. Seems for the same time and money you could build a far more spacious and better performing boat in ply like something from Snell or Woods.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.