Can it be done? (55FT aluminum under 200k euro)

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by mariocroatia, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Youre wrong. Ive been at it too long. Anyone who thinks they can beat the cost produces a boat that is not fit for the sea.
     
  2. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    And yet this boat has crossed oceans, I did the delivery, and is working fine to this day.

    What about if they are built in lands where the labour cost is $100 US a week or less, do you still stick to the same claim?

    add: I wouldn't call it "class 1" whatever that is but it was in survey for the country it was being used in and like I said, it was pretty basic inside, but functional and all mechanical systems were in place for the passage.
     
  3. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Class 1 equipment doesn't come from low wage countries. Class 1 engineering and execution doesn't come from low wage countries.

    It is possible for a skilled builder owner using cheap labour and facilities to shave costs but these savings will be small in the total budget.
     
  4. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Very true.

    It is a fallacy that building in cheap/developing countries you can delivery cheaper boats. The engine still cost the same, the raw metal material still cost the same, the equipment you're fitting still cost the same etc. The only real saving is in labour rate and the overhead costs of the yard.

    So, why do it then?...well clients are always looking for the 'same' but cheaper. Also buying from Vietnam/China/Korea the boats are made quicker, because these yards can throw endless labour at the job at little increase in costs...thus builder quicker than EU.

    There is a yard I know of in the Philippines, they pump out a new 50~60,000tonne vessel every 6-7weeks!...they don't even charge for labour, in their prices estimates, because it is peanuts in the whole scheme of the cost compared to the engines/raw material/eqpt etc.
     
  5. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    And if the budget is small, every little bit helps
     
  6. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    Not true

    Engines for example
    I "could" have got my motors in the US.
    Price from TAD a few mths back was

    [​IMG]

    In Australia they cost closer to $20,000

    I can provide examples of many "class 1" items I can buy cheaper elsewhere
    I bought a brand new Furuno radar a month or so ago, cost landed here was near 50% of the best price I could get in Australia for the same item.
    Which in a country like Australia is a major part of it
    Think several thousand dollars a month for a site.
    or several hundred a mth for a patch of dirt without a shed.
    Think $40 to $100 an HOUR (not a week) for wages
     
  7. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Why would you source items from one country if you can always get them cheaper elsewhere? If I can buy an engine from one supplier cheaper than the other, what on earth would posses me to keep buying from the more expensive source??...are you a charity?? :confused:

    You're assuming that yard A will always be buying product X from country BB, even though it is cheaper to buy from country CC or DD or wherever? Why would you do that?

    Thus, buying said eqpt from the cheapest source available, (not the most expensive!), the only difference is the labour costs and yards overhead etc.
     
  8. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    Strange comment from the guy who said moments ealier
    Sounds like you didn't mean that after all.:rolleyes:
     
  9. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Ah I see, you're again assuming "The engine costs the same" is by a yard buying from a more expensive source even though knowing there is a cheaper source! Because it wants to buy more expensive engines.....??!!

    Gessssssssssss.....
     
  10. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    Ad Hoc...in reality it ends for costing more, using a Third world country. At the exception of South Korea and China for ships, because in these countries you can find engines, electronics, and prime material like steel cheaper than in Europe or States. And they have plenty of qualified people from NA, NE to simple welders. They do produce good metal also.

    Here in Mexico, the aluminum, resins, fibers, peintures, engines, electronics, materials and everything cost more than in the States. The labor is cheaper but unskilled, and their efficiency is low. Add a few costly mistakes like a ruined mold or a crap hull and it's done...
    Add the administrative (both certification and legal) problems (the buyer is totally unprotected) and that becomes a nightmare. That explains why, a part an American owned shipyard in Veracruz and a Mexican Navy shipyard, there is no shipbuilding and nor boatbuilding in Mexico.
    For my Mexican customers it's cheaper to build a fishing boat or a yacht in Corpus Christi Texas, register it under American Flag, pass the USCG certifications in Texas and bring it in Mexico. For small boats like diving boats it's even cheaper to buy a used one at Tampas or Miami and take it back. I bought for a client at Tampas a forty feet diving boat with 2 250 HP FS Yamaha outboards for less than 100K US dollars. A boat almost new with only 180 hours...The 2 engines cost in Mexico more that 60 k plus 16% sales taxes...
    The Mexican presidents and other (indecently) rich guys do in that way for their yachts...

    For answering to the author of the thread: NOPE with a so low budget. After 30-35 feet, prices are exponential at the 3rd power (like the displacement...) for yachts. The hull is very small part of the total cost. And as a very small buyer you will pay the strong price for everything. About the engines I would like to see the final price after shipping, insurance and customs. And if the seller f**** you try to find a lawyer...
     
  11. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    Well I can guarantee you that if I went to one of the large alloy builders here in Australia they would be sourcing everything here.
    They would not be buying from OS.
    How do I know this?
    I used to work for one of the largest alloy builders in Australia and the mate I mentioned earlier owned a large alloy boatbuilding firm here as well.
    I sourced much of my gear from the same suppliers at the start.
     
  12. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    sabahcat,

    I don't understand what it is you don't get?

    1) You buy engines/epqt from OEM supply,
    or
    2) You don't. You buy elsewhere

    Wherever you obtain your eqpt, once THAT source is your constant, why would you make it more expensive by going to a different more expensive supplier there after?? Why would you assume a yard is going to consistently pay more for eqpt, when knowingly they can get it cheaper elsewhere..what kind of logic is that?

    Ilan Voyger summed it up nicely, as always :)

    BTW..i also used to work at 2 different yards in Aussie....what does that mean then??
     
  13. sabahcat
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    sabahcat Senior Member

    Lets start again shall we.

    You said

    1) I showed that the engine cost is not the same at all, 50% off US vs Aus using my example.
    2) I showed that many other items are also as much 50% less +- in US vs Australia.
    3) Labour is also considerably less than $40 to $100 an hour in the US vs Australia and in other countries its closer to $100 a week.

    All this shows that the cost of building a boat in Australia would cost considerably more than the same in the US, or, to build in the US should be considerably cheaper than in Australia.

    I'm not assuming anything, I am telling you how it is.
    Try getting an engine in from the states and then getting the guys here to do the new support on it, same for everything. It'll always be "contact the guy you got it from". No drama for a cruiser as he is out of the country of purchase anyway, so it has to go back somewhere regardless.

    It means I actually have "some" idea what I am talking about, I am not just making things up as I go.
     
  14. mariocroatia
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    mariocroatia Junior Member

    Youre wrong ...Lots of boats came from Croatian shipyards and they going allround the world
     

  15. mariocroatia
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    Location: dubrovnik croatia

    mariocroatia Junior Member

    here u are not far from that price in shipyards for labor ,personaly know in 1 boatyard ,3 worker for fibrglassing 20 ft coplete boat get 2500 hrk or 480 usd or 160 usd per person
     
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