Can I Use 4 Stroke Oil To Burn In A 2 Stroke Sea Doo ?

well my johnson has 4 cylinders its 85 hp so 4 stroke [4 spark plugs so 4 cylinders ]

 

Sceptre,

The number of cylinders has nothing to do with whether it is a 2-stroke or 4-stroke engine. Those terms refer to the sequence of events that happen inside the cylinders as the pistons move.

If your outboard is a 4-stroke, you should give it plain gas, just as for a car, and change its engine oil regularly, also just like a car (and it'll use essentially the same oil as a car).

If it's a 2-stroke, you'll either give it plain gas in one tank and TC-W3 oil in a separate tank (if oil injected), or you'll mix the TC-W3 oil with the gas at 40:1 or so.

The best solution, IMHO, is to keep plain gas in your jerry cans, keep the appropriate oil with each boat, and mix it just before transferring it to the boat's tank.

 

It all becomes clear now.

 

Sceptre
Is it a V4 or inline 4?
how about a photo

 

if its a V4 then its a 2 stroke johnson which can run oil injection on some models ....(but often disconnected and run on 50:1 ) ....If its a 4 stroke its a modern motor and is an in line 4 cyl 4 stroke from suzuki badged as johnson.

so we need to know if its V4 in line and if the oil injection is in use.. If its the V4 you can put the two stroke mix in the tank even if the oil injection is working ..extra oil is good for old motors .

 

Yeah --if you like smoke, oil slicks ,pollution, being fined , waisting money and a reduction in power as well as cleaning spark plugs.


Is there anything wrong with the manufacturers specifications. You think its wrong do you? you can improve on that?

 

to be fair, 50:1 is an arbitrary figure that was agreed on by manufacturers years ago when the oil quality got better and API TCW specifications came to fruitian. Of course its perfectly adequate.
So its a compromise of power/smoke etc. Hence the use/need for variable ratio oiling, no smoke at idle yet protection under load.
Most modern 2 strokes ( full complement roller engines)will survive at 100:1 with TCW II or III oil and API-TC ( Bombardiers required oil)

Anyone that races a 2 stroke will tell you max power goes up with increased ratio down to about 24:1 due to ring sealing...plenty of dyno tests on that.
Yes you will need a good ignition system and there will be smoke.

TCW oil specification states it must be bio degradable.

On the other hand what happens to the 4 stroke oil and the filter when you dispose of it?

 

Yes Frosty, there is a lot wrong.

We are told fairy tales as an incentive to buy different products for different purposes, causing a lot of confusion. Consumption rate is the keyword, that's why cat food is more expensive than dog food.

It starts with the nomenclature "mineral oil" versus "synthetic oil".
Both are basically wrong, oil is an organic (= bio) product, so it is always bio degradable. The only exceptions are silicone oil, where a few carbon atoms are replaced with silicon, and oil with additives like lead, molybdenum or PFTE to obtain lower friction at start-up.
Silicone oil is digestible for bacteria, Moly and PFTE are not, but the quantities are small.

The difference between mineral and synthetic is just the manufacturing process.

Mineral oils are a mixture of long hydrocarbon chains, refined, cleaned and acids removed, small amounts of synthetic products added to stabilize the viscosity over a wider temperature range. There are single malts and blended ones, just like whiskey; the blended ones have more constant properties.

Synthetic oils are the same stuff, but through distillation and heat treatment the oil is divided into groups with tightly controlled chain lengths, then mixed again to make the perfect blend and the same additives added. The long production process makes this oil more expensive, the lubrication properties and temperature stability are better specified, making it the 1th choice for high performance engines.

For 2 stroke engines, a cheap mineral oil with little or no additives is good enough. Product life is not an issue because the oil is immediately discarded, so using synthetic oils is a waste of money.
This is the oil sold in drugstores in large canisters at bargain prices, or in small cans labeled outboard motor oil, 4 times more expensive, even more if it says bio degradable on the label.
This is a phenomenon we all know very well: if it is for marine use, you pay extra. The best choice for 2 stroke outboards, lawn mowers and chainsaws is salad oil: cheap, available everywhere and easily digested by bacteria. It does not lubricate quite as good as mineral oil, but the differences are small and it mixes easily with gasoline. With the average use of 50 hours per season the engine will survive 20 years.

Of course simple mineral oil can be used in 4 stroke engines as well, as long as the specific power output is below 50 hp per liter displacement and normal service intervals are used. Only for engines with turbo chargers, high rpm or long intervals a better product can pay itself by increased engine life.

 

DO NOT get them confused or use the "wrong" oil for the service, their makeup is very different.

My understanding is the oils are built to lubricate at different temperatures as air cooled and water cooled operate at different temperatures.

FF.

 

Fred, the oil operating temp is approx. the same. The upper piston ring is where the oil is subjected to the highest temp, which is around 240 C. for all "normal" gasoline engines, even when the cooling liquid remains at 90 C.
For diesel engines the top ring reaches 300 C. because the compression is much higher. But I'm sure you know all about that.

Of course most of the circulating oil does not reach the killing field but lives an easy life in the lower engine parts, resulting in an average temp of 120-200 C.; some people consider even 220 C. for engines without oil cooler as acceptable. Oil formulated for diesels would be a good choice there.

 

I'm learning and have a question then. I've been using Delo 100 (for two cycle diesel) in my Johnson 25 two stroke. Is this oil possibly not burning as well because its designed ffor higher temps? I realize delo is a crankcase oil nothing like two stroke oil. I've been running it for quite some time with no issues but the exhaust definitely smells different.

 

Air cooled engines can run surprisingly cool but are strongly affected by outside temps such as a motorcycle. The benefit of water cooled engines is the temp can be controlled fairly accurately, thermostats etc etc.

This means the engine is able to run quite hot as it should, for efficiency.

Oil has become a science and is certainly above my knowledge. For your 2 stroke engine use what manufacturers recomend.

Ive heard of a guy running 2 stroke mix with ATF for his 'black max' it lasted just as long as the warranty did.

 

CDK
Intersting stuff except for when you run the wrong oil in a 2 stroke the deposits it leaves when burnt are what destroys your engine.

 

The oil is intended to lubricate the engine, not to burn, although that cannot be avoided. In a 2-stroke engine there is incomplete combustion: the short molecules in the mixture burn completely, the longest chains from the oil survive unscathed, cling to the walls and lubricate. But because an oil with only long molecules would not be a liquid, lighter fractions are present to obtain the desired viscosity (SAE 20 or 30). They are partly burnt and leave the engine as a residue with a distinct smell.

The formed carbon hydrates are called aromates. If you use olive oil in your outboard (a very good lubricant), the exhaust fumes smell more like olives than the oil itself.

 

Zappi
Dont get confused by 2 stroke diesel and 2 stroke outboard.
There is nothing good about the oil you are using and everything wrong with it.