Can I adhesive plasma cut steel hull plates with methacrylate ?

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by john smith 1971 ny, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. john smith 1971 ny
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    john smith 1971 ny New Member

    Can I adhesive plasma cut steel hull plates with methacrylate without need of welding ? I am asking for all parts not only for deck .

    Thanks
     
  2. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    I am totally baffled by what you are asking - but I am sure that if it was feasible / possible / economic to do, people would be doing it.
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    It can be done. You could engineer a glued structure. However, any water intrusion or surface corrosion would cause more problem than with welds or rivets. Also, since it is not common practice, there isn't much engineering background and testing available. You could refer to aircraft design where there are glued components.
     
  4. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    How?. I'm not saying it is not possible, I just wonder what requirements, standards, ... you have to meet
     
  5. john smith 1971 ny
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    john smith 1971 ny New Member

    ADHESIVE BONDING FOR STRUCTURAL MARINE APPLICATIONS A Roy, CRITT MPC, France. Y Nadot, ENSMA, France. P Casari, GeM – UMR CNRS 6183, France. SUMMARY In order to make the structural junction in a sailing boat, for example between the shell and the bulkheads, many nautical builders use overlap joints. This technique is expensive and could be replaced by direct adhesive junction without overlap. Structural adhesive bonding has been tested on three boats prototypes : a motor boat of 5.75 m long, and two sailing boats one of 5.5 m long and one of 10 m long. The originality of those boats is the measurement device using strain gages included on some of the junctions during the boats construction. Gages and sensors have also been placed on the shell, the keel and the rigging: the stress state of the bonded junctions under sailing in different conditions can then be qualified. Therefore, testing has been managed on specimens. A coupled loads tests (bending + compression) on tee samples seems more pertinent to qualify tee junction for shipbuilding applications.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    The joining of plates and reinforcements or bulkheads, all of them of composite materials, can be done by overlaps or simply gluing each other. I think that is what the study you have attached refers to. I do not believe, at least I do not know, that these techniques are applicable to steel plates. That is why I am so interested in knowing the technique that Gonzo says can be applied.
     
  7. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    John, your attachment is an excellent reference dealing with the bonding of composite joints - composite in this case being types of fibreglass (ie not metal).
    You were asking about adhesive bonding steel - yes, in a perfect world it should be possible, but our world is far from perfect.
    And the problem with steel is that it RUSTS. Composite materials do not rust.
    All the steel needs is for some oxygen to get in to the steel surface in way of the glued joint, and before too long the consequent rusting will force the two surfaces apart.
    I think that adhesives are used a lot in the manufacture of aluminium parts for aeroplanes, but they do not rust......
    Hence why everybody pretty much agrees that the best way of joining two bits of steel together is by welding them.
     
  8. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Indeed.
    But we have bonded structures before. This was for aluminium, and for UK MoD and to LR....the caveat was after testing we just needed to ensure no peel at the ends.
    LR has rules on bonding with steel to steel and to ally etc. As most Class rules do.
    They exist, but just not commonly adopted, that's all.
    The main caveat is that bonded structures are not for principal or main structure joints, unless of course you wish to provided endless mitigate and evidence to the contrary.
     
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  9. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Absolutely! I certainly would not want to bond steel hull plates together, which is what John Smith appears to be suggesting.
    Or any steel plates for that matter really, especially if it is at all possible to weld instead.
     

  10. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Personally I like to adhere to the adage to neither be on the "bleeding/leading edge or the trailing edge of technology but some smaller distance behind the former- let the aerospace/military spend up big on experimentation and appreciate the trickle down once proven by time & practice- Use a hot glue gun to join the metal as there's plenty of proven results in "metal fusion technology" by the likes of Miller, Fronius, Hobart, WIA, CIGweld, Lincoln, ESAB etc. Worth doing some small experiments like a simple box with bonded angle iron corners - compromise the coatings in a couple spots and check in a salt water environment to see how it goes. For a hundred or two would be interesting.
    Jeff.
     
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