Can Chinese Junk actually circumnavigate?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Wellydeckhand, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. Kanfish
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    Kanfish Kansai Fishing Company

    Chinese junks and pre Maori history in New Zealand

    Following on from the ' 1421 ' excerpt above and Chinese Junks being in New Zealand as proof of their capabilities for Ocean passages in this period. Much factual evidence is here and been found already but being hushed up by Maori and Government as they push for the BS they would like us to believe to the fore.
    There is one really good web site to read up on if you google ' Waipoua Forest Stone Village ' This has excellent photos that totally blows away the Maori BS of their history in New Zealand. This web site will also take you onto another site too ' Maunganui Bluff with astrological stone cairns and diagrams explanation of a people with much great intelligence than Maori have ever been credited with. ( I think my spelling of the bluff is not quiet right perhaps but you should be able to find it within the site ) West coast, upper North Island location.
     
  2. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    Mastmonkey,

    Perhaps the rudder would foul the propeller if it were located on the centre line? See illustrations below.

    http://www.thecheappages.com/junks.html

    http://www.thecheappages.com/junk/sampan.html

    Kanfish,

    Gavin M. suggested that the water garden in the Botanical Gardens, Christchurch was laid out in the remains of the harbour on the River Avon, excavated by the Chinese. It's a intriguing idea, but I would want evidence that the water gardens were NOT excavated when the gardens were founded in 1863. You are right though, that the NZ government is too politically correct to consider that the Maori were not the first settlers in NZ.

    I also was a settler there from 1949 to 1953. My father was sent out there in 1948 by Glaxo Laboratories (as was) to construct a factory in Island Bay for extracting Vitamin A from shark livers, but that's another story, from a long time ago. :eek: We returned home on the SS Strathaird. Great memories.

    Regards,

    P
     
  3. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

  4. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "A motor sailor can be 100% sailing vessel, as well as being 100% capable under power."

    A boat built like this would be called a 90/90.

    The loss of 10% as a motorboat is due to the weight of ballast , the rig and sails.

    The loss of 10% as a sailboat is due to the huge over sized engine and large heavy fuel carried as well as the drag of a large, slow, efficient prop.

    But the concept , a sailboat hull, large enough to hold 2500 miles worth of fuel , and a modern fully battened mainsail could be a cruisers joy.

    I would build in mounts for Flopper Stoppers , as probably 75% of cruising will be under power.

    FF
     
  5. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    I seem to remember that the Princess Taiping had almost completed a circumnavigation when she was run down by a ship i think, i could be wrong though.
    Steve.
     
  6. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    The rudder is not off center. It is an optical illusion in the photo due to the fact that the upper beam is straight and the lower is not, but in two pieces angling in. The one closer to camera of the two, seems shorter as a result, giving the illusion of an off center rudder.
    I am a film visual effects professional and deal with camera illusions as a business.
     
  7. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    I'd have to argue that the losses due to large propellor, turbulent aperture, weight of fuel and machinery, add up to a lot more than 10% less than pure sailing performance.
    I've sailed many thousands of miles with a 1000 sq ft Chinese mainsail and have observed that, like any sail, bigger is better. So if a motor sailor is planned and it's not all motor, then low freeboard, lots of stability and a large rig are needed. The Chinese lug works well if large enough and is easier to handle than most other big sails.
    The rig brings greatly increased windage into the motor boat half of the equation, degrading performance when bucking into weather. Unless the boat has a lot of power and a big propellor, this factor quickly adds up.
    Any motor sailor is a compromise, neither a perfect powerboat or sailboat.
    Another factor that seems to be ignored here is someone has to pay for, and maintain, both a full power installation and a complete sailing rig, so the boat is very expensive compared to a pure power or pure sail vessel.
    And if 75% of cruising is under power, the rest of the time the sailing rig is nothing but drag (windage) and still needs to be maintained, covered etc. so is wasted investment.
     
  8. MastMonkey
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    MastMonkey Junior Member

    The Princess Taiping did not circumnavigate, but did cross the Pacific twice, coming to California from Taiwan, stopping in several ports in California, prior to returning to Taiwan. She was sank by a freighter off the coast of Taiwan during her homecoming.



    You are completely right. I found a few other pictures showing the stern more directly and it is centered. I think that conical covering placed next to it really adds to the effect. Thanks!
     
  9. MastMonkey
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    MastMonkey Junior Member

    Thanks for these two links. Very informative. The bibliography given on the first gives me many new books to track down. I had luckily came across Worcester's "Sail and Sweep" while searching California's library system database. I did not realize he wrote many more, including one that is apparently larger and more detailed. The sampan link is also great. I have always wanted to build a small sampan, historically accurate, to use as a day sailor. This is the first time I have seen a sampan design given with a centerboard. This is also very interesting:

    "It is at this point that the reason for the peculiar stern construction becomes apparent, for it is obvious that if this boat is running off with a heavy following sea, the instant that a wave strikes her stern, a very large volume of water will be momentarily held in the space between the stern proper and the after bulkhead. In a large boat, this weight of water would probably amount to a ton or more, and the weight of this water momentarily holds down the stern and prevents it from lifting unduly on a following sea."
     
  10. Fernao
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    Fernao Junior Member

    Mast Monkey:
    I read about the Princess Taiping. She was completely traditionally built. It was sad to hear about her demise.
     
  11. MastMonkey
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    MastMonkey Junior Member

  12. Kanfish
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    Kanfish Kansai Fishing Company

    reply re web sites

    Yes, these are the web sites plus one other that is of great interest with much more reference to Maori canabalism in our New Zealand history.
    www.an unpalatable truth.co.nz
     
  13. Fernao
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    Fernao Junior Member

  14. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval


  15. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    Kanfish.

    That last link exposes all that is false about Political Correctness. As a family, we would spend the summer holidays (1950 -1953) on a sheep ranch in Ranana, up the Whanganui. The homestead was on the south side of the river opposite the village and can be recognised by a line of tall poplar trees in what was known as the lower paddock. Google Earth. The family who owned the place were the Monks, Pop Monk, whose mother was the first Pakeha up the Whanganui, his wife, their son Sos (he adored sausages) and their daughter Dawn. My father liked to hunt Captain Cookers. He wanted 4 full grown lower jaws, so as to have the tusks mounted in silver as a toast rack:!: He only bagged three, but I remember the jaws hung on a tree in the sun for the flies to deflesh them. The tusks would eventually loosen and his were brought them back to England I still have one pair of them and they are as sharp as ever.

    http://wanderlustandlipstick.com/2010/papua-new-guinea-people-gor-tribal-man-photo-of-the-day/

    On one occasion, we were all invited to a Maori wedding at the Marae and I remember meeting a very old Maori woman who was reputed to have eaten human flesh. The answer to my mother's question was translated as "Long pig tastes like Captain Cookers, but sweeter". Which means that the NZ government claim that the Maori were not cannibals is false, just like the denial that the Chinese did not mine minerals in NZ before the Waka Houreas arrived. However all governments are liars, so it's only to be expected.

    Regards,

    Perry
     
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