Building plans for 26'-28' ocean-cruising STEEL sailboat?

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by mcm, Dec 14, 2007.

  1. mcm
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 158
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 26
    Location: Port Townsend, Wa., USA

    mcm Senior Member

    Has anyone on this forum seen any building plans for a 26'-28', STEEL, blue-water, ocean-cruiser, with shoal-draft centerboard, and yet possessing complete 180 degree self-righting?
     
  2. Arvy
    Joined: Jun 2005
    Posts: 117
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 44
    Location: Netherlands

    Arvy Senior Member

    Sorry haven't seen any of those, but considering your requirements in STEEL it will be very very difficult for such a small vessel (without external ballast) to be 180 degree selfrighting. This is mostly due to the weight (and the distribution of weight) of the steel, aluminum would be better for this job.
     
  3. jorghenderson
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 35
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 12
    Location: Sweden

    jorghenderson -

    Danish Rose 28

    The Danish Rose 28 by Martin Bekebrede comes close you could ask him about stability details.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,258
    Likes: 144, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1806
    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    mcm, simply put, all ballasted sailboats will (should) right themselves. As boat heels over, righting stability rises to a max in most cases at about 60 degrees of heel. Then the righting moment will gradually reduce until it reaches a point of vanishing stability and she goes over - this usually happens in a window of 110 - 140 degrees average, depending on design and designer.
    In an inverted position the center of gravity is now well above the water and the floating hull unstable and should go back to an even keel with a nice puff or wind or wave movement, but usually the momentum of the roll will be enough to right itself again.

    As for the little cruiser; soon I am going to put pen to paper to design a little 25 - 26 steel boat - light weight steel construction blue water cruiser with very traditional lines above waterline.
    Underwater profile will be modern / efficient with fin keel and the hull will be radius chine construction. Perhaps this will be of interest to you....
     
  5. mcm
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 158
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 26
    Location: Port Townsend, Wa., USA

    mcm Senior Member

    Thanks Wynand,

    And that's exactly what I think, but I’m still not sure if I should go with a ballasted or unballasted centerboard.

    As long as the boat is not too beamy, it should be able to self-right either way.

    I've been to your web-site several times over the past year, and I really like the work you are doing.

    Yes, but I definitely want to go with a shoal-draft centerboard drawing less than three and a half feet.

    What’s that; a little over one meter?

    Moreover, I don’t want the expense of custom-plans, so I looking for cheaper stock-plans.

    I like six foot head-room in the galley and head, and full sitting head-room over the settee/berths.

    Also, I am considering either a quarter-berth, or having a very shallow cockpit with a full berth underneath and no inboard engine, only an outboard mount on the transom.

    Looking for moderate displacement of less than 7500 lbs.

    Do you have any stock-plans that fit that description?
    Or have you seen any plans that fit that description?
     
  6. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,258
    Likes: 144, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1806
    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Unfortunately not.....
     
  7. tojeres
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 1, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Slovenia

    tojeres New Member

    Spray 27

    Hi

    I'm looking for the same and so far I found Spray 27.
    It seems trailing (small size) and steel (weight) don't go together.
    But let us know if you will find it...
     
  8. MarkC
    Joined: Oct 2003
    Posts: 197
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 13
    Location: Germany

    MarkC Senior Member

    Ahhhh! The quest for the small-steel-craft... my favourite topic!!!

    I've busted my head over this very search. :(

    - yeah, but most come from a earlier generation and most haven't been transfered over to digital files (one designer told me he had thrown his plans away (see below) because the cost to transfer them was too much!).

    [​IMG]


    - the designers have retired, passed away, someone is putting their plans in a collection, there is an association (eg maurice griffiths) or no-one has responsibility.

    - apathy???


    But then you said:

    - go talk to a designer - the only guarantee.


    Other Options!

    - Look in Holland - look at www.botenbank.nl
    (click on stahl and zieljachten and you will find 60 or so small steel sailboats under 28 feet long - some for just Euro 1,500 or 2000. Honestly it would be cheaper for you to look at this site, buy one and stick it in a container to where you live, pay the customs and enjoy). Buy a fixer-uper and enjoy. These boats where made by companies rather than designers. I havent found any plans. But there are some absolute gems! Dompkruiser, Wibo, Sneekermeer.

    look at this one - 1978, 7.4 meters with buhk 10hp for Euro 3K.

    [​IMG]


    - look under the Dutch society of naval architects (Kornaat yacht design, koopmans etc) - for such steel craft:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    - Hankinson boat plans (now taken over by Glen L) sorrensons 'shrink wrap tug plans'

    - denis ganley from new zealand - (awesome steel plans - available from his daughter)

    [​IMG]

    - Atkinboatplans (and take them to a designer) eg Captn. jim young 28' centerboard schooner - lots of designs that could be 'adapted' to steel construction.

    - Ian Nichols (but how to contact him?)

    - laurence giles (Vertue 24 or 26foot? in steel) plans expensive!

    - thomas e colvin - loads of designs!
    [​IMG]

    - roberts boat plans = tom thumb (grahame Shannon designed)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Van de stadt (probably better aluminium) but?

    [​IMG]

    The other thing to think of is that the small craft steel boat builders were/are skilled at adapting other designs to steel - eg, maurice griffiths, laurence giles, atkins, van de stadt, etc. Look for a ply design and ask a designer or do the sums yourself. The risk is yours... will it float on its lines? You have to choose your cross-over design carefully.

    eg.

    William Garden's jelly bean:

    [​IMG]

    Roberto barros:

    [​IMG]


    Wynand N did a fantastic Tomb thumb modified to be bigger inside. How much to bribe;) you for one of them now Wynand?? :)

    I cant find your blog anymore Wynard? - and I've raved there as well :)

    Sorry - not making much sense - need sleeeeep.
     
  9. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,258
    Likes: 144, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1806
    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    MarkC

    My blog / webpage; www.steelboatbuilder.com

    Here are some pictures of my TT24 under construction with lengthened cabin top and I changed the full keel to a naca series fine keel.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. tazmann
    Joined: Aug 2005
    Posts: 329
    Likes: 17, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 215
    Location: California

    tazmann Senior Member

    Take a look at the Brent Swain 26, Origami method of building, around 3-1/2' draft with twin fixed keels or 4' with single.
    IMHO I dont think blue water cruiser and retractable keel are a good mix.
    Tom
    PS if I recall right the plans are around $200 from him
     
  11. mcm
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 158
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 26
    Location: Port Townsend, Wa., USA

    mcm Senior Member

    Thanks Taz,

    I am a member of Brent Swain’s Origami Yahoo Group, and, if Brent’s design was a centerboarder instead of a twin-keeler, I would be satisfied.

    I appreciate your opinion, and you certainly are not alone in that opinion, but I have read some other informed opinions that indicate that a centerboard pivoting into and out-of a strong, steel, stub-keel is very stable.

    True, Brent is very positive about twin-keelers , but his is a minority opinion, and most opinions indicate that, outside the extreme low tides of North-West Europe, twin-keels are disadvantageous.

    So far my search for plans for a 26’-28’ ocean-cruising, steel, centerboarder is still on-going.

    Roberto Barros’ Multi-Chine 28 is very close to the centerboarder I have in mind.

    Unfortunately the Multi-Chine 28 seems to be one of Roberto’s few designs NOT in steel.

    Moreover, the Multi-Chine 28’s high freeboard is a waste, because I only need standing head-room in the galley and enclosed head area., thus I would prefer a lower freeboard replaced by a higher cabin top.
     
  12. tazmann
    Joined: Aug 2005
    Posts: 329
    Likes: 17, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 215
    Location: California

    tazmann Senior Member

    mcm
    The BS26 wouldnt be a good canidate to modify to a swing keel like you discribe, the hull draft is about 2'. I went with the single keel on mine and its 1'9" deep. Standing room at galley is no problem but the head being off to one side is with the deadrise of the hull.
    Not many steel sailboat plans for under 30' out there, might have to switch to diferent material to get what you want.
    Tom
     
  13. MarkC
    Joined: Oct 2003
    Posts: 197
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 13
    Location: Germany

    MarkC Senior Member

    There are not many plans to see on the internet - but they are out there. I will agree there are not many steel centerboarder plans.

    www.thomasecolvin.com

    www.bruceroberts.com

    www.kastenmarine.com

    Fair metal boats (ganley yacht plans)
    paulm@fairmetalboats.com
    4620 Stein Road
    Ann Arbor MI 48105

    Adams Yacht design - have a nice steel 28 footer
    14 Gerard Ave
    Condell park 2200
    Australia
    0061 2 96442441

    or take a plan to a designer of your choice and have it adapted to centerboard.
     
  14. mcm
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 158
    Likes: 1, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 26
    Location: Port Townsend, Wa., USA

    mcm Senior Member

    Thanks Tom,

    Even without a centerboard, the BS26 is by default near the top of my list.
    How does the BS26 sail?
    Do you feel it's an ocean-cruiser?
    But, I've only seen an above the water-line profile of the BS26.
    Do you know where I can see a full profile and an interior layout?
    Do you have an opinion about the origami construction method?
    What's your displacement, and how much ballast do you carry?
    How much steel does it take?

    Mark,

    I went to Adam's Yacht Design website, but I failed to find any 28 footer.
    Do you remember what they named the design?
    Do you remember where you saw the design?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008

  15. tazmann
    Joined: Aug 2005
    Posts: 329
    Likes: 17, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 215
    Location: California

    tazmann Senior Member

    MCM
    Im not quite finished with it yet, roughing out the interior now. As far as I know mine is the first 26 built as a 26, there are a few that were built but were modified a lot and stretched to 28'. There is no plans for the interior you have to come up with your own.
    The origami method is a very quick way to build the hull, decks and cabin structure the rest about the same as any other method.
    Displacment around 6700 Lbs and 1800 Lbs lead balast, if you go to the origamiboat site look in the photo files tom's BS 26 I have a lot of pictures there. Under the files section there is a material list for the 26 that should give you a idea of what it takes.
    Tom
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.