Budgeting the Build of a 35' steel sailboat; worthwhile costs vs. extravagance

Mike, the only advice I can give here is to get plans that are BUILDER FRIENDLY and designer available for after sale support. That applies not only for the amateur, but the pro as well.
How would one know if plans are builder friendly? - ask a boatyard that had built to various designs.
Another hint is to find out if the designer has built himself a boat or two and that means he knows the "pitfalls" and should address that in his plans.

Whose plans are the easiest to build to? From experience I will put Dix on top followed by v/d Stadt. Angelo Lavranos boat plans are also well sorted out for the amateur.

My tips for the home builder; stay away from full size patterns - they are not worth the paper printed on. Lofting is easy and you are guaranteed having perfect frames etc.

As for CNC file cut plates Yep Mike, you guessed right. Like laser cutters and the like, it is over rated and do not allow you to make adjustments when something goes amiss - and it will happens with an amateur.
Keep it real, have balls, measure and cut your plates and be assured of a perfect fit everytime...a steel boat is not a kit car.

 

You are absolutely right. Refreshing to read you. To many people are afraid of lofting and get taken by the full size pattern which amount for nothing.
Daniel

 

Excellent point! I bought plans for a 55 footer a few years ago & they sent me full-size patterns. Fortunately, they also sent the table of offsets, because I have no use for the full-size patterns. I probably could have saved a bit on the shipping, if I'd thought to get them to keep the fs patterns. I remember you guys talking about this a couple of years ago & I laid one pattern out on the shop floor & compared it to the offsets. not only were the reference lines/points not completely accurate, but the paper edge wasn't square on an edge that was a reference line(c/l).

Wynand, you've got much to offer this thread, though it would be a repeat of earlier advice to myself & others. I just thought I'd gather what is useful to someone, so it would save having to re-state the sound advice, over & over, with each new member/builder. Alternatively, we can just point people to your new website, which has a lot of great info.

 

Ok, so nearly every one here agrees that only a “Pro” builder can weld a boat together right, let me throw this concept in the mix. Is it money well spent to have a pro shop build the hull and have it delivered to you for finishing?

Dennis

 

The answer is simple: it depend
Daniel

 

Lampy, I would strongly recommend, if you have the funds, to let a pro boatbuilder build you the hull, deck, keel rudder and tanks, have it welded and shotblasted and epoxy primer painted, and delivered to your door.

1. Save you years off your building schedule - most projects get abandoned during this stage.
2. Keep you on friendly terms with the neighbors - a grinder, shotblasting, epoxy paint fumes, arc welder interfering with TV signals are the nightmares neighbors fears most...
3. Save grace with the missus.

But as Daniel said so well, "it depends".

Mike, put me on the plank if I start to sound like someone we all fear, and I'll take the dive

 

I have not seen such statement. And Murielle would prove it wrong in a moment, if it was made.

Buying a hull is definetively a good idea in general though. It is the lowest factor in cost, but one of the biggest tasks. Thousands of half finished hulls give a clear picture.

 

Not forgetting, full size plans are subjected to temperature and humidity too, as such the film, or whatever medium is selected, is never 100% perfect. Not to mention the temp and humidity of where they were printed shall be different from where you live, ie shrinkage/stretch. Additionally, if the printer used was old or cheap, these tend to "stretch" the film too...or 'smear' the ink.

Good advice, as always

 

I wouldn't say that it takes a professional, Dennis. Anyone who can weld well & follows the specifics of correctly welding a boat hull/deck/etc. - weld schedule - will suffice. By the same token, what a few have already suggested - that it might be worthwhile to have the steelwork completed professionally - is, imho, a reasonable consideration, if one can afford it. I suppose the other issue would be that, if you're set on building the hull/decks/keel/etc. yourself, you'd better really love to work steel, because you'll be doing it for a while & nobody is going to pay you for your time.

Yes, it does pay off to have a hull professionally done, when selling becomes an issue. I knew a guy who had a Roberts345 that was put together poorly. After slogging it out for a while, he & his wife decided to buy a professionally built aluminum "Swain" design. While I hope they consider the other discussions that have taken place regarding design, at least he can move on to his strength - joinery. When the day comes that they have had enough of that type of boating, they'll be able to say, "professionally built aluminum sailboat for sale".

Mike

 

Professionals have experience going for them, doing something gets easier when you've done it a couple of times before. Professionals can also afford better equipment, buying things for a one off is expensive even if you can resell them but Ebay tends to help.

Amateurs have time on their side, when you don't have to turn a profit you can afford to spend time on details which otherwise would never get done. When you buy something it's usually after paying income and sales tax, in most countries this halves your purchasing power so you can spend 2x more time on something than a professional you hire.

As for the quality and those tips and tricks mentioned, I think the Internet has changed the playing field, in a couple of weeks worth of browsing you can learn a lot. You can also order a lot of good books which are easier to find now than ever. With this in mind I think skilled amateurs with experience building in the material of their choice can produce something which is just as good as what a commercial yard can do.

If the amateur isn't skilled in the material of choice it's easy to do a couple of practice projects or take community college courses or even get a job in the field for a few months.

As for lofting vs. kits vs. full scale patterns and omitted details on drawings, I recommend doing your own CAD. Take those offsets and start drawing, don't stop until you have every last bolt, pipe and hose in place. It will take months but it will save you so many mistakes and in the end reduce the total effort since you can CNC cut both steel and interior. Some might argue that CAD isn't worth it for a one off or amateur work but I reject this, I think it's one of the most productive way for an amateur to start building a boat, familiarize oneself with every detail and add those that are missing. This will lead to better time and price estimates, better design, build quality and it can all be done before spending a dime on material, housing or tools.

Jarl
http://dallur.com

 

I agree 100%. Doing the CAD work is like building boat for a first time...you get to find mistakes before they are costly.

Cheers,
Mark

 

if you're good with cad you can get weight and balance info

 

As a beginner it took me 4 month to master the courage and the bare basics to try out a wooden boat construction. I do not come from a family of builders nor have i ever been involved in boat building.
Its a BIG task for some one like me.

Now if it comes to steel, i would definitely ask and look for the choice that will give me the safest possible solution (tried and tested design, access to help and support) in short the most idiot proof solution (or selection of solutions).
As for welding, i would go with professional welding, i just know my limits and i can not get around to do it myself not yet anyway.

As a rule of thumb for me, the less the unknown variables in a build / project the better the outcome will be, so i will avoid any uncharted territory.

much cheaper on the long run ..
Just a beginner's opinion

 

for someone like you, in steel there is only one choice and we all know what that is

even you can pull together a hull in a week

 

I didnt understand your post ....