Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

Great pics, RR2.
I would be happier, given your crew,, if you had a walkway around the edges of your cabin and a grab rail on the edge of your cabin top. Not difficult to install, but much safer for all in rough weather.
It's no fun to have to climb over the cabin top to get to the fore deck in a bad seaway.

 

Bruceb. Have you re-launched yet ?, and what have you decided about the "other boat".

 

That's a very good point OS7. Its difficult to see in the photos but there is actually a forward trampoline for that reason. There was a timber walkway forward of the beam but I cut it out in favour of the trampoline. The grab rails are something I hadn't thought of but are something I will look at for sure.

 

more Bucs

Congratulations RC, you have done a nice job putting your Buc back in service. It looks as if the family enjoys it. Crew in training
OS, I launched my boat last week, and have started re-tuning it. As usual, I have changed some things I am planing on racing it in a week, so I will get to see how well things work.
I am still working on details on the other project. Particularly how to get it apart and fitting a custom trailer. I am assuming the cross beams will have to be cut apart and rebuilt, as I expect corrosion will have taken its toll, and those are not easy to source/replace round tubes. I am not sure how it will turn out, but I am still trying.
B

 

Well Bruce.
We are sliding into winter here in NSW. AU.
You must be gearing up for sailing, even though you have only recently launched.
Have you any "Secret Weapons" you have worked on to enable racing superiority in he coming weeks ?

 

mistakes?

OS, I launched a couple of weeks ago, went racing, and tanked four races in a row
The boat went together well, floated high, and sailed ok on a shakedown cruise, but on the race course, I just couldn't get it to go. It wouldn't point or accelerate, so then we got in everybody's bad air, and you know how much fun that is. VERY frustrating. It was a pretty day, and we didn't have any boat handing issues- with about a dozen spin sets and take downs, and three headsail changes. Nothing broke, and the dinner at the club was pretty good so it wasn't all bad.
I haven't determined what I changed that it doesn't like, but I will find the problem/s soon. I think! that I have the mast raked a little too much, and we might have been over-rotating the mast also. As usual, it gives me something to do.
Bruce

 

Bruce, if your float foils are set at around 40 degrees, and your B24 heels on its dihedral; you'll sail piss poor to windward in light airs, no grip unless at high speed. You need a vertical board in the main hull, can be very high aspect ratio and not a large area ... boat will be transformed.
Miranda gets away with her angled foils because they're set at around 25-30 degrees - but this boat too, needs a central dagger. Just imo. Also, her rudder is much deeper than standard B24 and that helps too.

 

boards

Thanks Gary. That seems correct, I usually don't use the float boards in light air, (I even have trunk seals) but they seem to help more as the wind picks up. I have a deep draft main dagger that is in most of the time (about 6' total) and a larger transom hung rudder- the same set up as last year when I could usually win most pointing contests. I am sure I "improved", re-messed up! something, that will probably be obvious when I find it. The basic equipment hasn't changed; same sails, sheeting points, dagger board, the best bottom I have done, and mostly the same crew. We were not that far off the pace, but in our local fleet, a little off can put me way back quickly. Once I get caught in the dirty air off the larger sport boats, I usually can't recover.
Nice pic of Miranda!
Bruce

 

Is a problem following in disturbed air ... and then you try and pinch up to get clear ... and go slower ... and sag.
Defecation happens.
I found myself similarly, once on Groucho, in a large mono/multi fleet race; light airs, beating, wasn't getting anywhere compared to the big monos, eased off a fraction, tacked to clear and soon afterwards crossed ahead of fleet and continued extending.
There are no rules ... but one exception - do not pinch on a multihull.

 

Bruce.
If you can get hold of the book "Design for fast sailing" by Edmond Bruce and Henry Morse, it covers the whole box and dice.
Edmond Bruce is my sailing guru. He nailed it all back in the early sixties. All,---(and I mean ALL)--- the modern multihulls derive from his research, using both mathematical calculation and physical testing. He was even the originator of the curved foil. The hull sections, L/B ratios, importance of the prismatic co-eficient, aspect ratio and areas of foils, light weight and of course the much debated Bruce Number were just some of the things he espoused.
Gary is right, you need a vertical foil to reduce your hull leeway to around 4deg going to windward. Your very long board is over kill. The fact that the hull over the base of the dagger effectively doubles the aspect ratio means that the ideal A/R of 6:1 is achieved with only an exposed area at 3:1.
On the B24 the ideal wetted area of the dagger is 2% of the projected sail area (main + fore-triangle), or about 4.25 sq/ft. In other words if you stick your long board down just enough to get that area it should work well. Your canted boards in the floats would then be working only to reduce heeling. But whether that would be worth it given the increased induced drag is an unknown. You are going to have to experiment.
Just my (rather long) 2c worth).

 

It's interesting this thing about too much board/foil wetted surface and drag destroying sailing performance. OS7 is right about finding the correct combination.
As an aside: finding the out-of-print Morse/Bruce book will not be easy - price has sky rocketed too.
When I sailed on Newick 36 Mokihi (with 40 degree foils and main hull dagger) we just slew all opposition in a Coastal Classic, finishing in light airs beating in from Cape Brett ... and we had the lee foil right down plus the main dagger full down too. Mokihi was total joy to helm setup like so. Course we had no one in front throwing dirty air. In fact we couldn't see any of the large fleet astern by the time we got to Tapeka; no, that's not true, there was one speck on the horizon.
Now the Newick tri had/has small, low buoyancy, banana floats and relied on foil assist for stiffness and power ... and yet the combination of both dagger and lee foil worked perfectly in those particular wind and sea conditions.
I'm sure you'll figure out your problems, Bruce - but OS7's observation/guess that your dagger is too large, sounds like that is your culprit. Cheers.

 

Bruce.
Do you have any more info/news on your friends B26.
Very interested to see if it was a one off job of Locks, or just a stretched B24.?

 

Capricorn's Beams

Can somebody please point me to posts that show pictures of the construction (and mounting) of Capricorn's beams. Thanks.

 

The page you would be looking for is page 21 about mid way down, for information on capricorns cross beams.
There is information on capricorns crossbeams in the thread 22 - 24 trimaran on page 6.

 

Capricorn's beams

Thank you.