Buccaneer 24 Builders Forum

OS, Ive bought fastenings that I wont even use! ....... Before I started the build I bought brass screws, sheradised ring nails etc, and a couple of extra tools a Orbital disc sander and a Air power Stapler - I had planned to do the build as you did when you built your Buc using the power stapler for nearly all wood to wood joints, however, it never quite works out as planned, we are in winter here and the weather is wet and cold and my big barn which houses my air compressor is like a fridge - so all work has moved to the utillity room at the back of the house, I have glued and edged two frames since my last post and used bronze ring shank nails (two frames down, eight to go), all metal to wood fixings I will do in SS, the skins, I will probably use bronze ring shanks again with abit of help from the power stapler (weather improving, hopefully), I will string the staples so I can pull them out afterwards.

 

Sounds good John.
Bronze ringnails are fine. Be careful not to dent the plywood when hammering them in.
I also used epoxy coated bronze staples so that I could leave them in---except in places where I going to plane, such as at the chine stringers.

 

fasteners

John, the bronze ring nails used in my boat are as new 35+ years after my boat was built. They are reliable, even if they take a little longer to set. Well worth the effort. B

 

Bronze ring shank nails and stainless chain plate fasteners.

 

My unused Stapler 'as yet' - I am sure it will come in handy later on in the build :?:

 

Self tapping

Are you going to use the self tapping SS screws in the wood? I use these guite often when working on autos. They work great on metals ok on fiberglass if you use them and leave them, not very good on wood. The bit portion cuts the wood out not leaving the threads much to hold onto.

 

chainplates

My chain plates are thru-bolted, and I think that is as Crowther intended. I only have them on my floats because of my rotating rig. Make sure the clevis pin holes end up far enough above the decks- mine are a little tight. I think if I were building new I would at least consider composite chain plates. Several of the current designers make a very good case for them. B

 

Yes you are right diego, the supplier sent me the correct size SS screws but with a cutting tip, they should be threaded to tip, I am waiting for correct screws.

In the past I have had problems with chain plates (mast rigging to deck chainplates) coming loose, it can present a big problem resecuring them especially if you have a inner hull fabric linning and furnishings as the whole lot has to be removed to make the repair.

All my chain plates will have the above SS fixings epoxied in and be a permanent fixture, I might even glass them over as well.
If you go to the West System web site and watch the short video 'Fastener Bonding Techniques' this is how I will do the job on my chainplates.

 

chain plates

John, I have repaired many- (in some brands "most") chain plate bulkheads where the manufacture had glassed over the chain plates, and in some cases just painted over them. Stainless always moves some in relationship to wood and water always gets in- and rot happens. If the fasteners and plates are sized right, the over-glassing is not at all necessary and IMO, a bad idea. The plates and fasteners on my floats are as-installed 35 years ago. I did remove one upper bolt on each side to inspect them, and they are fine after a lot of hard use. The float chain plate backing blocks would have to be thicker to use the "West" system style attachment, as speced, the total is less than 1". B

 

Quite honestly Bruce I would rather use nut and bolt fastenings and if yours have lasted that long with no problems, I am quite happy to go down that road, at the end of the day I just want a good secure fixing that is not going give me problems at a later date.
What is the diameter of your bolts and are they secured with spring washers/loctite ?

 

Come on OS, we need some input here - how did you secure your chain plates and would you do the same if you was building a new boat today ...:?:

 

Through bolt. But put a backing plate of skin ply on the inside and epoxy the inside of the bolt holes,--twice. Coat the inside of the chainplate with epoxy and let it cure completely before installing. Do not epoxy the chainplate to the skin of the hull, otherwise you will get cracking of the hull coating as the chainplate "settles" under load. Just my 2c worth.

 

Bruce, your fractional rig on your boat, you might have a split back stay and adusting block - I will need two fittings for mine, probably located just inside each corner of the transom, can I ask what hull/deck fittings you used and how did you attach yours ?

 

attachments

John, My boat has one 1/4" shroud per side going to a large single shackle on the front of the mast that also includes the forestay. This past season I tried individual tangs on each side of the mast for the shrouds, but the mast does not rotate far enough, so I "think" I will go back to the single shackle. My spar was designed for a Stilleto 27 cat and is quite stiff, so the single support works OK. I do have diamonds and spreaders to keep the mast in line. I have about 7' of mast above the hounds and I might attach running backs at the masthead- at least I am installing the tangs while the rig is down. Very light synthetic runners would help with forestay tension up wind and keep the mast from inverting with my masthead spinnaker. My shrouds attach to the stock float chainplates- installed just as the plans show- 4- 5/16 bolts about six inches apart. My skins are all 1/4 ply so they are stronger than designed, and have the speced backing plates. The boat was built by one of the Canadians around the same time as OS, and I think used most of the same methods. The bolts were well coated with epoxy, did not use lock washers (but did have oversize flat ones and were never in any danger of backing out)- the epoxy in the threads works quite well. I have never seen lock washers on production boats either. I will use a loop of Dyneema around the rear float tubes for the running back attachments, I tie on all sorts of blocks and such that way- it is light, movable and quick. I have turnbuckles on my shrouds, but I will change to dyneema lashings and might add blocks to cant the mast soon. I like Capricorn's set-up. I have drawings for carbon fiber chainplates and I think I will use them for any new attachments. B

 

A disclaimer!

Modifying boats, mulithulls in particular and Crowther designs especially is very much akin to taking your tool set to the certified airplane you are about to fly in. BAD THINGS CAN HAPPEN. You, your crew, and the people that have to come to your rescue can all be put in serious danger if something goes wrong. Lets all be very careful. I have a partial model of my boat, and I can assure you that Crowther didn't include anything that wasn't necessary-and every panel seems to be loaded. When anything is changed, the whole structure needs to be re-analyzed. B That said- see next post