Breaking News - New America's Cup Class

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Lighten up CT!!! Oldsailor said: "All the major ocean sailing records are now held by Multihulls."And you go off on one of your "hate" lectures. Absolutely crazy....
Speed DOES count 100% for every major ocean sailing record. Quit jumping on people when you don't understand what they said-or when you choose to ignore what they said!
And by the way: fast boats are MUCH MORE POPULAR when trying to set speed records! Fast boats are much more popular with the sailing press BECAUSE THEY GENERATE EXCITEMENT.

 

If speed were the only consideration in America's Cup matches, they'd have thrown away the sails several generations ago. Since they're still banning engines, it doesn't make much sense to me when folks complain about arbitrary design restrictions....

If they go ahead and run 90-ft monohulls in the next series, I expect them to be beautiful under sail and I'll love watching them. Hopefully, they'll require them to face whatever prevails on race day (within reason, of course) instead of waiting for some narrow, ideal slot of wind and sea conditions.

90-footers in rough weather, clawing to windward anyway and trying to slalom through the waves downwind? Awesome. Watching how they go about coaxing performance out of a boat that large in light airs? Some people might consider that boring; I wouldn't. Of course, I also like chess matches.

 

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Troy, I watched the last race and enjoyed the pure spectacle of such incredble boats just flying around the course-and I've watched almost every AC since they were televised and enjoyed most of them for the sheer beauty of the boats from 12's to USA. I enjoyed the rough weather race in Perth probably more that any other race except '83.
But I think using boats representative of the highest level of sailing technology should be used for the Cup-right now thats probably multihulls. But it won't be long before a monofoiler sails right past a "foil assist" multi-and then thats the boat that should be used. And I hope whatever boat is used is big, spectacular-and fast!
PS-both boats in the last race used engines while racing....

 

Speed does not count for 100% of every major ocean record. Never has and never will.

Behind every fast boat is the need to contain all the incredible loadings and transmit the drive from the sails into motion through the water. Put that foiling speedster, L'Hydroptere, out on the same course that was used by any of the recent Jules Verne boats and you'll quickly see that speed is not the 100% answer. The fragile Hydrop will blow itself apart in short order because it is not made to go that fast in the toughest of conditions.

Very simply stated, speed is a direct result of design structure. Without the engineered structure, there will be no speed.

Now, I know you don't like hearing that Douglas, but it's an inescapable truth. When you do get your priorities in order as to how all this works, you might be able to line yourself up in a bombastic fashion. Until then, I would suggest that you have seriously missed the mark and need to do some homework.

 

Actually Doug, records are set by the boat that covers the required distance in the shortest time period.

How you get there, and what was the highest speed attained isn't as important. Often on the drag strip cars can reach amazing speeds but they are beaten over the quarter mile by competition that get there first. Frequently the elapsed time is lower for cars that pass the traps at lower speeds than their opposition. High peak speeds do not automatically translate into lower elapsed times.

What matters is who wins, not who went faster.

The sailing press and fanatics like you are not the people we need to get excited. That's preaching to the choir. Why does stock car racing have a much larger following than Formula One? Because many more people in the seats can see themselves in the driver's seat of a car that has the same name. There is an easy connection between the enthusiastic crowd and the sport.

Although most of us here are fascinated with a level of detail and technology far deeper than the average beer can club racer, there is one hell of a lot more beer can club racers than there are Boat Design members. And that fact is very important to understanding what type of event will attract more viewers, sponsors, advertisers and sports fans.

You have a very defined opinion that you believe to be the one true path - but your obvious truth is not for everyone. Recognize that and you will be far along the path to understanding why people argue with you.

--
Bill

 

This is so true.
The forgoten factor will say someone
Daniel

 

Really? It looked to me like they were sailing, not motoring. They weren't using engines for propulsion.

 

Why does stock car racing have a much larger following than Formula One?

With the exception of one country,sandwiched by Mexico and Canada,this is a nonsensical assertion.It may have an AC parallel though because one type of motor racing uses neolithic technology,no longer even available in most showrooms and one pushes the technological boundaries.I would suggest that dragging tons of ballast around the ocean is about as modern in concept as using a carburetted pushrod engine to transmit power to a solid axle on a racing circuit.I would include on deck ballast and powered ballast adjusting systems in this description.I would hope that any new class allows some freedom to innovate and that the boats will be required to sail without the use of powered systems to adjust the trim of the sails or hulls.I would also hope they retain the requirement that the boats be left unshrouded and in view during the event.

 

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I wasn't knocking them for using the engines-but a whole lot of people do. I think it is part and parcel of modern high performance sailboat design....

 

So snicketty, Wet, my boy.

Beyond the issues involved, I would be willing to bet that if you have any competitive sense as a driver, you'd give your left nut to get behind the wheel of a full-tilt NASCAR machine and do some hot laps. Who wouldn't when the car weighs-in the same as a Toyota Camry and runs a whopping 850 hp at right around 10,000 rpm?

Me thinks you are chasing the wrong muse if you are passionate about cars at all. F1, Rally, Dakar, Indy, NASCAR... they all have their place and they are all different.

As for popularity and attendance, it would probably come as no big surprise that the FIFA World Cup is the biggest draw of them all and they have the very bad sense to run around on their absoutely Neolithic legs and feet. Good God, what has sport come to, anyway?

 

I know we're not talking about the joy of sailing here, far from it - but L.Francis said words to the effect that, "the real pleasure of sailing is related to the speed in which the boat sails" - and I don't give a rat's fart what wacko theories abound trying to deny that, also if you're talking about spectators, they want speed .... and you all know that, so stop spinning a load of old bull defecation, I mean you CT especially..

 

It could be argued that's why sailing doesn't get much of an audience, because there are few sports worse at providing speed...

This speed thing is a popular theory, but it just doesn't stand up to any serious examination. For example the popularity of fast boats has collapsed in the UK in the last 15 years to the extent that the Olympic 49er is, I think, the only high performance trapeze boat any of them sell. By and large all the performance classes have been junked from their ranges in favour of slow heavy rotomoulds...

When I helped start off a generation of talented youngsters at my club in 29ers a few years ago I thought I'd be seeing a new and more numerous generation sailing the kinds of boats I love, but instead they are mostly now sailing boats that are far slower than the 29ers... "Yes, but the racing is better" seems to be the answer from those I've broached the subject with.

The number of folk sailing fastish boats at my club is the lowest I think its been for the last twenty years... The only thing I can say for sure about high performance boats from my years sailing them and administering classes is that the number of people who will buy one are outnumbered about twenty-five to one by the people who say they'd love one, but when it comes down to it find an excuse to buy a Laser instead. There's nothing wrong with buying a Laser of course if that's what you want, but its galling if you're promoting something else and you've been listening to all the talk.

Tell me Mr Baigent - what boats do *you* own?

 

CRUMBS----I really did open a can of Worms, didn't I.

 

Actually, what counts in a race is who wins. It's as true for a foot race as it is for an F1 or a plane race. Speed is relative, and relatively unimportant.

In a race where the speeds are somewhat reproducible like a foot race the breaking of a record is of interest, but there's no such thing as a record for the AC: different boats, different rules, different venue, different conditions.

Few people remember the speed at which a race was won, unless it is a historic event like the 4 minute mile, but they remember who won.

In an outright speed record attempt it is indeed the speed that counts. Record attempts are rather boring events that usually don't attract a lot of spectators, just a news item usually forgotten the next day. People remember the new speed record as well as who set it, but not for long.

People remember a race if one of their own is participating or won, if it is a sport they follow, or if it is exciting. The AC attracts about as large a TV audience as frog jumping so it's got a ways to go. Problem is, even the competitors don't give a cuss about audience size.

 

Most of the people I know, who aren't sailors, regard yacht racing to be as interesting as watching grass grow.

However in Europe there are masses of people watching the Formular 40 races.
WHY?? Because they are fast and furious.