Boat Capsize Evidence

Discussion in 'Stability' started by Sachi, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. Sachi
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: baharin

    Sachi New Member

    hii friends,

    Is there any book/procedure/guideline for collecting/analyzing the evidence for failure in design of a capsized boat?


    my boat is a double Decker one, with seating capacity of 80 people. Its a fiber boat. It was capsized while taking a turn in lake while on full capacity. It is suspected that there is a design failure and people want to sue the company.

    My boat 14 m in lenght with 4 meter beam, 1 m draft and 15 ton displacement. It is made of fibre and a double decker. total weight 6 tons.

    I want to investigate the following

    1. How to analyse a suspected design failure
    2. what is the maximum degree that the boat can turn
    3. What are the requirements for an FRP fibre that used in boat especially plesure boats
    4. What are the regulations for pleasure boats
    4. Any other useful information

    Please help me with books, astm, ISO or any other documents in this regard

    thanks in advance
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    What makes you think that capsizing a boat is an indication of design failure?
     
  3. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Because it just couldn't be 15 people on a 20' pontoon boat all running to the starboard side at once to watch fire works (or something), it just has to be the designer and their incompetence in vessel design. I mashed my thumb with a hammer yesterday, so I'll be filling suit with Stanley at the first of the week.
     
  4. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    I think you nailed it on the head there :D
     
  5. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I am sorry Sachi, but it is not a very good question.
    Cheers
    Daniel
     
  6. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    If you are looking for statistics on why boats capsized then that is something quite different.

    Or maybe you are looking for evidence that a boat has capsized before

    What size boat are you talking about ?
    Boats in general are designed very well.
     
  7. Paul Kotzebue

    Paul Kotzebue Previous Member

    In that particular case it absolutely would be poor design. Any boat that is designed to carry people should be designed with adequate stability with passengers crowded to one side.
     
  8. Yooper78
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    Yooper78 Junior Member

    I don't remember seeing capacity plates on boats in the 20'-30' range that state maximum number of passengers or maximum weight of passengers as you do with small boats and canoes. 15 passengers on a 20' boat seems like an awful lot -- would the designer be expected to design the boat to remain stable no matter how the live load moved and no matter how much live load was piled on board until the boat sank straight (but stable) down of the weight???
     
  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    So, Paul, how many 20' pontoon boats you know of that can accommodate 15 people at the starboard rail? You clearly missed the point, which is simply the vast majority of capsizes are because the owner no brained themselves into a hole. Unfortunately, society can't sue them for being foolish, though they can jail them for being an idiot.
     
  10. Sachi
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    Sachi New Member

    hii,

    my boat is a double Decker one, with seating capacity of 80 people. Its a fiber boat. It was capsized while taking a turn in lake while on full capacity. It is suspected that there is a design failure and people want to sue the company.
     
  11. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Design analyses can be a long and drawn out affair. It also is very probable that nothing conclusive may result from the design study. In a large majority of cases, it's the skipper that is technically at fault.

    Unfortunately, in your part of the world, having standards and accepted practices in place for protections against unsafe designs or operation, is shall we say "lacking". In this regard, the majority of cases it's the boat skipper who is typically the person directly responsible, but since most of these don't have enough money to be worth suing, the designer or manufacture is unjustly perused.

    To get started, you need a legal team, preferably those with experience in just this sort of litigation. Short of this, you're pretty much out of luck.
     
  12. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    I would imagine you would need the number of passengers, details of any other loads, number and qualifications and experience of the crew including the captain, the rated capacity of the boat, evidence that it was well maintained and in good condition and intended for the purpose it was being used for, information on the suitability of the location for that kind of craft, statements of what took place immediately before and during the incident, weather information to show it was not an issue at the time, information on the influence of other craft in the vicinity for example excessive wash. In general any court would want to know what happened and in what way the boat was being used that was different from its design intention and the usual practice for that particular boat ind similar boats. You have to show that it was being operated in a responsible manner well within its intended ratings and in a safe location before you have a chance of proving design error. You would have to show either something failed that chould not reasonably be expected to under the circumstances, or that the boat was simply did not suited the purpose its designer stated it was for. And even then you probably won't get anywhere unless there is an established culture of litigation for such matters.
     
  13. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Sachi

    You need to employ professional consultants to establish if there is "any blame" as such, but more importantly to establish the sequence of events that caused the incident. This will take time and be costly. There is no quick one line answer. Your insurance company would normally take this approach if they have not done so already, since all insurance companies will not want to 'pay-out'. They wish to 'blame' someone...

    Unless there is a similar 'body' like the MAIB in your part of the world.
     
  14. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Who decided on the seating capacity? Did you just install they maximum amount of seats that would fit the space? Are there any signs telling people not to crowd to one side? Are the onboard personell properly trained and inform people of reguations? It goes on and on.
     

  15. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Alik Senior Member

    Over 80% of marine accidents are human factor (operator) and thus designer/builder won't take any responsibility. Most widespread factor of capsize is overload or incorrect loading, that is definitely fault of operator.

    Besides just curious where are lakes in Bahrain?
     
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