Blackrock 24 (Build)

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by LP, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Wood Questing.

    I've started the treasure hunt for mast wood (among other wood questing). I hit three different HD's and came away with one board. That's how it goes sometimes. It's best to hit the wood stack when you're not really seeking wood. It's less frustrating that way.

    Backing up a few days, I hit the local depot and found nothing, but a piece of Doug fir with great grain and few to no knots, but it had a fair amount of twist in it. I threw it back.

    The next day I hit the same HD and found it's brother. I threw him back also. I found four other pieces of possible spruce material. In the end, I threw three of the four back, walking out of the store with one piece. I hit two other depots and nothing screamed out out at me. Se la vie (sic). Such is the luck of treasure hunting.

    Yesterday, the brothers (2x8x14') were talking to me. I went back and rounded their arches up. I also needed some 2x4's for fixturing. Eight footers would work, but that stack is always throughly picked over. This day the 2x4x16' stack had some nice specimens. Four 16' spruces (cousins) and two 16' Doug firs (sisters) came home with the brothers that day.

    The brothers, though twisted, with be cut into strips and laminated into roof beams. The twist will be of no relevance once flexed and laminated. The ugly cousins will be used for fixturing while the pretty one are set aside for toe rail and possible bulwark material. The sisters......maybe mast material, or some other piece where a long structure member is needed.

    On the subject of mast material, I did find an interesting product at the HD's in eastern Mass. 1x4x12' VG Doug Fir. At about $3.50 a board foot, it could be very affordable mast material. The biggest drawback that I see is that it will most likely be 3/4" thick and mast section will need to be adjusted at the deck to accommodate this material.

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbrande...r-Square-Edge-Flooring-Board-484544/202523814

    Photo sequence: The Brothers, The Brothers gone to Pieces, Some of the brothers reassembled.

    image.jpg

    Thus is the nature of wood questing. I found treasures when I wasn't looking for treasures. It wasn't a spectacular day, but I was pleased with finding a few suitable pieces to help with the build.
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The hunt goes on. It should be standard fare now when in the big boxes to scan though the stacks, just in case. I find the most success is to get there the hour they take new stock delivery, as you odds are best. I've helped local staff stock their racks, of course knowing I'll be sorting through much of it along the way.
     
  3. SukiSolo
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    Location: Hampshire UK

    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Nice if you can find some good stuff in amongst the dross... biggest problem after that, at least in the UK is that the humidity level (of the wood) will be high. You can almost squeeze the water out sometimes..... so it needs about three months to dry enough....;)

    When I built some windows for the house, a local yard let me sort through their quality joinery section of pine/spruce which was very useful. At something like 300' by 100' in area it allowed a reasonable selection!

    Sometimes you find a really excellent plank but need to resaw to get the quarter where you want it. I've become more open to doing this as the good stuff is so hard to find.
     
  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    For the most part, unless buying pressure treated stock, which isn't wise on most boats, the big box stores will have quite dry lumber, usually below 12%, often quite a bit below this. It comes out of the kiln in the low single digit range and stabilizes to the in store HVAC environment. Down in my area, the stores are running A/C ten to eleven months out of the year, so it's moisture content will be 5% - 7%, while up north, I'll be the lumber is closer to 10%, but still very dry, comparatively.
     
  5. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    You're lucky for those humidity levels PAR. I doubt most of the UK high street/builders merchant stuff even sees a kiln (specialist timber does) so imported at up to 20% (I've known much higher though illegal) and that you can feel under your fingers...;)
     
  6. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yeah, I know and am grateful how lucky we are in many ways. The cost of course, is having to tolerate Trump running for president.
     
  7. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Hey, Paul, you talkin' bout muh daddy! :p :p :p

    The funny thing about the brothers is that I threw one of them back twice and once I decided they were useful, I was worried they were already gone. Fortunately, they had enough twist no home builder or amateur remodeler would want them.

    My first roof beams were a bit of a failure. I didn't allow for enough spring back. I had 16% spring back on a double lamination of 1/2" pieces. I also has some squiggles from the twist. I reclamped them in the jig with some additional induced curvature and will let them sit for a couple more days to get a good set on the epoxy. I'll probably probably up the laminations to three and reduce their thickness. This resets spring back percentage though. Less than 16% no doubt. Guess I'll try a glue up with a 12% allowance.
     
  8. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yeah, a single glue line in a two piece laminate doesn't offer much resistance to the internal stresses within the pieces. I always do odd number laminates (3, 5, 7) for this reason, to get some additional glue lines and have a balanced laminate.

    If he was your "daddy" you'd have a mega yacht and would hire some grade school age Indonesians, at $7 a day, to build your next custom yacht.
     
  9. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Yup. And where is the fun in that?

    ---------

    I'm going to try to save the bigger roof beam by adding a third lam to it. With the spring back failure, I got to thinking about having the glue line on the centroid. Not a lot of mechanical advantage there.
     
  10. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Once again I seem to agree with PAR... in terms of odd number in laminates. For the type of curve you posted above (right hand shot of the three) I'd probably use around 6mm (1/4") thick for each solid part of the laminate. Maybe up to 10mm but you have the stock and can 'feel' the curve strain better. Mostly this will not change curve after releasing from the clamps, at these dimensions.

    It is also possible to glue/laminate in situ IF you have stable enough frames or a platform that won't move and you can clamp there. Only advisable IF you can run a small plane along after to clean up the squeeze out and very light trim. By careful masking to catch any squeeze out etc this can be useful. Good also for hiding screws in the last but one laminate to get a seamless look.

    We (in the UK) are well aware that Mr Trump has an interest in a Scottish golf course and his opposition to a wind farm.......;) maybe you get more 'hot air' in the US? :D
     
  11. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Hi, SS.

    I've considered the laminated in place beams. I've got a lot going on with the coach roof and will probably make it a way more complex process than necessary. My design has a non-developable roof and my ply material immediate begs for a conic shape. I took a close look at the secondary camber on my coach roof and I'm thinking I may be able to torture something into it. I only have about 1/4" of secondary camber in 4'. My ignorance makes me think this might be possible. On the four foot width of ply, I would glue battens lengthwise at the 1/3 divisions before bending. These battens would be on the inside of the curve pushing out. I would try 1/4" battens at first and if the desired secondary camber wasn't acchieved, I would either increase the batten thickness by another 1/8" (iffy) or apply a second set of battens to the panel edges, longitudinally, but these will be on the outside surface. On this set up, I'll have batten pushing out in the middle of the panel and battens pushing (pulling?) in at the edges. I'm really hoping this will give me the secondary curvature I want. If successful on plan B, I'll have to go back and shave off the exterior batten after the interior structure is completed. A conic section will be the fall back position.

    But for now, I'm thinking 3/8" laminations. 1/4" would certainly reduce the bend stresses. I'm lazy, but always seem to do things the most complex way possible. :rolleyes:
     
  12. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Shop Shenanigans.

    Have you been using your saber saw and wondered why in the #€£% does the saw dust always collect ON your line, in front of your BLADE. I've tried blowing the dust away, but on a long cut, all this does is put down at the dust source INHALING your saw dust. Bad news. I've also turned my air compressor down to a few PSI and used an air gun to apply a constant stream of air on the blade area. This works well, but takes away the use of one of my hands.

    The big question is:

    Why isn't the motor cooling air directed in such a manner that it blows in the blade area and keeps your line free to be followed without obstruction?

    So here is my my latest solution to the problem. Duct tape. Strategically placed, it does a wonderful job at keeping the cutting path clear of debris.

    Note: check out that dispursement field. I small piece of tape was placed on the inside of the air path to cover the sticky side and keep it from getting stuck to the saw.

    image.jpg

    :D:D:D Have a great day. Hope you enjoyed my Shenanigan.
     
  13. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Most jigsaws do expel air across the blade to remove dust, but the passages can become clogged in time. A standard bit of maintenance I do is, blow air through the dust collection system backwards of normal flow to knock out any blockages. I do this to all power tools and also blow out the commutator/brushes areas, just to prevent debris build up.
     
  14. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

    I checked. No such exhaust on mine. Oh well. :(
     

  15. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    A photo of the mizzenmast step. The first. Image is the sub-structure and the second is with storage floor/sole added. All that remains is to add a layer of 3/4 ply over the top and mortise(hole saw) for the tenon.

    image.jpg

    I've been destructing to make some design modifications and recently started constructing again. I subtracted 2" from the seating height and did a major configuration change to the cockpit. I'll add pictures later. Had to grow some cahonies for the change though. No going back now. The change involved increasing sole area to the cockpit and this meant raising the height of the height of some areas of where the storage lockers were. This in turn would affect the mizzenmast mast step area if all areas were raised universally. Instead, the sole in way of the mizzenmast mast step was left at the lower height and a splash edge was added to the area to keep water clear. The area is above waterline and will have limbers added to drain any water tha t does make its way in.
     
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