Best design for GRP sailing/rowing boat for 5 people

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Becandalex, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. Becandalex
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    Becandalex Junior Member

    Would greatly appreciate advice on which boat design is best.
    Needs to suit the following:
    Made out of fibreglass GRP.
    Sail well.
    Row well ( reasonably well) by four people plus fifth on the helm.
    Any advice is welcome.
    Thank you.
    Alexei Lysenko
     
  2. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    [​IMG]



    You might research cornish gigs to see if they will meet your needs. These are light, fast, seaworthy boats.

    They are much loved and have many clubs and associations that can supply plans and advice

    Construction method is your choice. Sailing these boats might be a problem
     
  3. Becandalex
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    Becandalex Junior Member

    I have looked at Gigs and they are fantastic boats. The only issue is they are row by six plus helmsman. I was trying to find a boat being rowed by four plus a helmsman. Thank you kindly for your reply and if nothing else eventuates i would certainly consider that great design.
    Cheers
    Alexei
     
  4. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    behttp://[​IMG] subir fotos online..

    You should sketch what you think the sail plan might be...ultra modern, classic

    Difficult to combine saling , rowing and performance
     
  5. Becandalex
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    Becandalex Junior Member

  6. Becandalex
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    Becandalex Junior Member

    I also appreciate that sailing/rowing boat will not be excellent performer at either. Trying to find not excellent but good performer.
     
  7. susho
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    susho Composite builder

    Interesting, I've been searching for something similar, to be used for sea cadets. Someone in the dutch waterscouts had the same need, to replace old, steel boats wich are hard to sail, row and require quite some maintanance.
    He actually made a report, contacted a designer and had a preliminary design done. Basically a boat that could be rowed by 6(+1), and had enough room to sail with 4 plus instructor, and would be light enough so that younger children can handle the loads. It featured a watertank for extra stability, which could be emptied when rowing, or sailing with more experienced crew.
    It is designed as an aluminium centreboard sailing dinghy.
    Aluminium wasn't really desirible from my point of view, but I really liked the concept. I did talk to a NA with more GRP experience about some ideas, but I never made a preliminary design around those ideas.

    a PDF of the waterscout concept is hete in dutch, it contains some renderings: here
     
  8. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member



    Beautiful boat.

    Perhaps look to the Adriatic sea, italy and croatia for inspiration. The Gajeta fulkusa. Four man sea going sailing small craft that have been refined for centuries

    http://www.alternatura.hr/about-gajeta/


    And contact Boatdesign net contributor Daquiri direct PM for thoughts and design.

    http://[​IMG] subir fotos
     
  9. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    will rowers have two oars apiece or each with one big "sweep"?


    and how "big" of water do you intend to operate on?

    In any case, I think you can take a 'standard' dory design and stretch and pull it and get a good boat hull design.

    I don't think there is any 'voodoo' going on as there might be with planing or semiplaning hulls and 'transition speeds' etc.
     
  10. AnthonyW
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    AnthonyW Senior Member

    How about an open crabber?

    NorseBoat 21.5 is a stunning looking open boat and I am sure it would row. I am not proficient at posting pics - but google "NorseBoat 21.5 Open and Cornish Crabber’s Adventure Series". Something similar might do.

    The Brits have some stunning open boat classes that I am sure would take two rowers sitting abreast. Some were called 'beach raiders' but battling to find the class - gorgeous lines, and water ballast for sailing.

    At a push - a SeaPearl 21 might be suitable if you are in the States? Not sure if these would take to rowing, but two abreast per seat might work.

    These might not be suitable, but might be a nice starting point to get some direction.
     
  11. AnthonyW
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    AnthonyW Senior Member

  12. AnthonyW
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    AnthonyW Senior Member

    Pity you want or GRP or the below might have been ideal:

    Highlander 19.6 by Selway Fisher in open format (don't build the cabin)

    or a stretched STORNOWAY 16 - also by Selway-Fisher. (Paul does modify plans for a small fee). The Stornoway is designed for rowing and sailing in any event. There is a pick on the website. Personally I think it is gorgeous.
     
  13. Becandalex
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    Becandalex Junior Member

    Gents,
    I am a bit overwelmed with your responces. Thank you kindly. May I feply one by one.

    Susho. What an unusual, modern design. I was after 4+1 but this is very interesting concept. I tend to lean towards tried and tested by someone else and as this in new design, there is unknown but very interesting. How would I go about obtaining detailed plans if this was the boat of choice?

    Michael Pierzga. Whow. I was not considering such radical sailing arrangement but what a boat! I would like to discuss with my father this and other designs. He is the one who will be looking after the building and has the final say and I would love to show him all the choices.

    Squidly-diddly. Rowers will have one oar per person. It will be semi open waters of Sea of Japan. Vladivostok is the place for the boats. For cadets of the Maritime Academy. Sea can come up to 1 to 1.5 meters and fairly fresh wind. Expect day trips. Occasionally overnight trips. I liked dory designs and there are great yawl designs, Caledonia yawl etc. i did not realise that you can simply stretch the boat a little without upsetting design. They are really lovely boats but at the time i considered them too small.

    Anthony W. Norse boat 21.5 good boat. May require little modification to fit good rowing benches for four people. Cornish Crabbers look more of a sailing boat only. When you are talking of beach raiders may be you refer to Gigs. They are great rowing boats and getting very popular in UK. Can be sailed as well. But 6+1 and wooden. Seapearl 21 is a very interesting boat. So simple. Made out og GRP. Looks a good sailor. One thing to confirm can it be a rowing boat. Beniquete looks a pure sailing boat. GRP is chosen because it is easier to build and maintain such boat. I really enjoyed looking at Selway Fisher site. Lots of boats to choose from. I liked 16 Petite Brise. I wonder if Paul woul not mind making design a little longer :)

    Overall gentlemen thank you all so much for your responces. Just to summarise I was looking at replacing this design for marine cadets of Vladivostok Marine Academy to teain on.
    http://sigo-marine.prom.ua/p3150696-klassicheskaya-grebno-parusnaya.html
    Requirement GRP because easy build easy maintain. 4+1.
    Before coming to this forum the best i found were:
    Drascome range. All made of GRP. Caboteur looked good but was not sure if can be rowed.
    http://www.drascombe.nl/download/caboteur.pdf
    Also french designer
    http://www.vivierboats.com/html/other_sail_and_oar.html
    Odet youl. But not sure if can be rowed.
    Great rowing boat.
    http://rowingforpleasure.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/another-river-conquered-by-st-ayles.html.
    But they only star experimenting with sails and made out of wood.

    Overall there is lots of choice now with your help. I would like to ake an opportunity and iscuss these great designs - your suggestions with my father. Thanks agai and if there are more designs in the meantime please they are very welcome.
    Cheers
    Alexei Lysenko
     
  14. AnthonyW
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    AnthonyW Senior Member

    Paul Selway Fisher

    Hi Alexei

    Yes Paul does modify his designs for a small fee. I am building the Windrush and he modified it for me. I think the best is to buy the design and then ask him to modify - I think he probably gets a lot of queries that don't go anywhere, but I am speculating - so I think buying the plans first is best. With me he ran the modifications past me first, with suggestions for sea keeping and stability, and we tweaked it from there. In addition, there is a whole boat building forum with his boats on it and people who record their progress and others who chip in with advice.

    Note his boats are to my knowledge not GRP. But heavily sheathed ply is strong in many instances.

    Ironically I live near one of the most renowned sea going catamaran builders in the world, but they bring in their supplies in bulk, so getting bits and pieces is problematic. I am stuck with limited cloth and on supplier of expoxy - and one varient at that. With wood I have to use imported marine ply and meranti. Nothing else is available, apart from pine grown locally for paper pulp - useless stuff as it grows too fast here - unless one has an enormous budget. Nonetheless I have had no problems building the boat so far. So even if you have limited materials, you would be amazed at what you can do.

    Paul also gives out a DFX file at times - so I simply had the wood routed at a CNC company using these files, and almost immediately thereafter stitched it together. Not sure if this (CNC routing) would be available in your part of the world, but I reckon this has easily halved my build time as I have limited tools. (As you can see from my pics of the boat on his site - it is being build on veranda) Depending on your budget and import costs, you could always get the ply cut and sent in.

    It seems a huge number of Paul's designs have been build - I don't think he will lead you astray.

    As to Vladivostok - this place has always been curious to me. I once worked on a maritime legal case when I was a legal clerk (had yet to write the bar exam) with a Russian sea captain from there. I had learned a bit of Russian as a teenager so they moved me to the court case. The ship was theoretically a cargo ship, but was linked to the Russian navy, and the ship was 'arrested' due to a pay dispute. Things became quite interesting quite quickly for reasons I won't disclose due to legal priviledge, and the captain was quite brave in the stance he took - though I fear the Russian government was not very impressed with him, and I always wondered what happened to him on his return. I did some research, and the city featured on a Michael Palin episode in the 1990s. Looks like a beautiful part of the world. The city popped again in my readings as I understand the naval reserve there is one of the last habitats of the snow leopard.
     

  15. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

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