Batteries and New Battery Technologies

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. sdowney717
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    No, this is the power source we have been waiting for.

    NASA here in the USA says it is real.
    Goal is to have it powering homes and cars and trucks and boats. Maybe in our lifetime.

    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...a-nuclear-reactor-in-every-home-car-and-plane

     
  2. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    That maybe true. But it take 7 years before a car is put into production. Another 7 years is the normal run for a chassis. That makes it 14 years. I cannot see that the marine industry will be the driving force for such LENR technology, thus we have to wait for the large industries to get involved.

    I am 72, that means I have no chance to experience such technology. I have to have it from higher density batteries to enjoy today the pleasure of an electric boat. But 8 kwh/per kg is very attractive to me and I hope that for the interim period, such batteries will be produced in large quantities. Bert
     
  3. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

  4. erik818
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    erik818 Senior Member

    It makes sence that oxidizing aluminium will produce vast amounts of electricity. Metallic aluminium is produced from aluminium oxide with elecrolysis, requiring at lot of electric current. (Competitive aluminium foundries have access to cheap electricity from e.g. nearby hydroelectrical or nuclear power plants.) An aluminium/air battery makes sense.

    I don't think that an aluminium/air battery will be rechargeable as such, but the resulting aluminium oxide should be possible to feed back into the aluminium foundry and "recharge" into aluminium again.

    I don't know what the total losses will be to oxidize aluminium and then bring it back to aluminium. If the losses are reasonable, aluminium would be a good energy carrier.

    Erik
     
  5. T0x1c
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    T0x1c Junior Member

  6. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Instant charge up supercaps? Maybe for very low power niche uses as in the referenced cell phones. There is no way known to charge millions of electric transport vehicles instantly off the grid. Existing electric rail is far more efficient without having to carry heavy/bulky supercaps or super efficient batteries without straining the grid...

    Porta
     
  7. T0x1c
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    T0x1c Junior Member

  8. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Super Capacitors

    Well folks, everybody was telling me I am a bloody fool, I agree (sometimes) , but sometimes I also have a good idea. But here it is. Toyota has now incorporated a super capacitor in their vehicle. It was logical, you store the electrons on a plate and discharge it by taking it off the plate, up to a million times.

    Here is the article:
    " Toyota says that the super capacitor has a higher power density than an NiMH hybrid battery, along with faster charge/discharge speeds. This makes it suitable for the fast bursts of boosting power needed, both in the TS030 Hybrid race car and in the Yaris Hybrid-R, which Toyota envisions as a track-focused hot hatch. The super capacitor is charged via regenerative braking provided by the dual rear electric motors.

    Each 60-hp motor is mounted at a rear wheel. These aren't electric mode, fuel economy-boosting supplements, but performance-enhancing boosters designed to quicken acceleration. In this capacity, they assist the 300-hp 1.6-liter four-cylinder turbo "Global Race Engine". That engine is mounted up front and works through a 6-speed sequential gearbox. " from Gizmag 28/8/2013.

    It will not take long to make even larger and better super capacitors, which can be used in an fully electric vehicle. I can't wait to get them for my boat. Bert
     
  9. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Reputable manufacturer

    What is so significant, in the olden days people like EE stor, Siemens and a couple of other single non automotive manufactures gave it a try. However now that Toyota is putting their technical muzzle on the use of super capacitors and even use it in production vehicles, that is serious and could mean the beginning of something we have been waiting for. We all know that super capacitors have some disadvantage, like the discharge curve, but with electronics it could be partly smoothed out. But the advantage is, low weight, high charging and discharging currents and not to forget, very long lifetime. Bert
     
  10. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Ee Stor

    BTW, What has happened to EEE Stor, or was it EE Stor ??
     
  11. CDK
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    CDK retired engineer

    There is a huge difference between today's Super- or Ultra caps and the EE-Stor fantasy capacitor. They made headlines with a ceramic high voltage product with enormous storage capacity, which made it too dangerous to be viable.

    What is available in the real world is a product like the Maxwell Supercap: 1000's of Farads, but with only 2.4V working voltage. Also a potential bomb because above 2.85V there is irreversible damage to the isolation layers, but at low voltage levels it is easier to manage.
    Despite the horrendous price PSA in France seems to use these caps for brake energy recovery or intends to do so in the near future. The Maxwell BMOD-48V has 80 Farads at 48V, weighs over 10 kg and can store 27 watt/hours. But it costs $1500 !!
     
  12. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi CDK, yes I agree with you. I have a problem that I bought a few super caps, but am concerned in how to place them properly in series, to achieve a higher voltage. With normal capacitors, one places a number of high ohmic resistors parallel over the caps, to ensure the voltage is properly divided over all caps equally. But the idea is not to load those super caps in anyway, otherwise you just drain your "battery" for nothing.

    Anybody has any comment on this issue?

    The good thing is, that an automotive manufacturer, with a reputable name start to use this technology. If they are willing to place sufficient funds into this super cap technology, something may come out very useful. The Japanese don't have oil or gas in the ground, thus their vision may be a good try and good for us.
    The Americans has so much gas and oil in the ground, that they will now experiment with liquid gas in their engines. Absolute pity. This will most likely now delay any advancements for Solar and other green technologies.

    Bert.

    p.s. her is the latest on EE-stor.

    CEDAR PARK, Texas, Aug. 12, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- EEStor Inc. ("EEStor") Announced today they were notified by the Zenn Motor Company's board on August 7, 2013 that a deal to purchase KPCB's "Series A" investment in EEStor was being announced on August 8, 2013. EEStor provided a positive response and feels this is an opportunity for both companies moving forward.

    About EEStor Inc.
    Headquartered in Cedar Park, Texas, EEStor Inc. is dedicated to the design, development, and manufacture of high-density energy storage devices and Capacitors. EEStor, Inc. is utilizing revolutionary ultra-capacitor architecture and environmentally friendly materials in the production of our EESU's and capacitors.
     
  13. CDK
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    CDK retired engineer

    Maxwell specifies 5 mA self discharge for their cells, so their is a 470 ohms resistor across them.:D
     
  14. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Whoooow, that is a very high discharge load, about 4 Amperehour per month. I was hoping that the Chinese super caps are in the microamps. But as Maxwell is 5 mA, I cannot see that the Chinese are lower. It is far worse than Lithium batteries. Thanks for the info.
    Bert
     

  15. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

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