Batteries and New Battery Technologies

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    My profound apology. The short circuit current indeed increases sharply by shining a mirror onto the small solar panel. I made a mistake. I bought a new meter and forgot to change the meter lead to the Amperage side. The Voltage measurements was correct but the Amperage was garbage.
    Here the correct measurements at 09h00 today 4/1/2010.
    Bright sunshine.
    Photons intake at 90 degrees
    short circuit 26 milliAmpere
    Open Voltage = 15.54 Volt

    By shining a mirror close by, which added photons to the small panel.
    Short circuit = 45 milliAmpere
    Voltage = 15,80 Volt.

    Conclusion: The Voltage logical will not raise that much as the limit was already nearly archieved by the normal volume of the photons.

    But I am delighted that the shortcircuit current was increase by 73% and that with a primitive mirror and methode. !!!!!!!!!!!!

    I personal do not believe that the temperature on the sea or in the harbour just above the water will make the solar panel very hot. It is a different story with installations in the Desert or inland. If it comes to the push, one could pour water over the panel to cool it down at midday. (Is this practical?)

    Folks get yourself some blinking stainless steel, it will give you a booster during charging !!!! It is a cheap way to make better use of your solar panel.
    Bert
     
  2. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Here the two photo's
    The one measuring 27 milli Ampere straight into the normal sun.
    The second measuring 42 milli Ampere with a mirror reflecting additional photons. Sorry, I needed one hand to make a picture with the camera, therefore the mirror is not optimised.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    The type of small Solar panel used is from SINONAR is the type number SC-14633. For large solarpanels you could have reflectors at both sides. But watch the temperature.


    Type Specifications Dimension (mm) Vop lop Voc lsc Thickness
    (L) (W) (V) (mA) (V) (mA) (mm)

    SC-14633 145.7 32.5 9.6 13.0 14.5 17.0 2.0
    at 100Mw / cm2
    Vop = Voltage Operational
    Iop = Current Operational
    Voc = Open Voltage
    Isc = Short circuit current.

    Please find out from your solarpanel supplier the max temperature your panel can handle. Probably 60 - 70 degrees Celcius. (Maybe even 100 degrees, it depends on what pvc they have used internally.)
    The Max temperature for optimum efficiency is probably 40 degrees Celcius, but it does not mean that at a higher temperature you will have a problem.
     
  4. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Masalai,

    If you do use some standby reflectors, please consult the manufacturer, what the maximum current can be for the internal wiring up. Normally all cells are in serial and the inter connections maybe only designed for let say 6 Ampere for a 4 Ampere panel (48 Volt / 200 Watt panel) . If you use reflectors on both side of a panel, you may go up to 10 Ampere and that maybe too much for the inter connections, not only for additional heat, but also it may weaken the soldering/welding points.
     
  5. jamesweinn
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    jamesweinn New Member


    How is it possible Mr Perry, That's fine work my dear,

    Vast amount of info still its a nice ground work needed. i know.. I really appreciate for the work then for the information .. pretty much useful.

    Thanks Perry,
    James.
     
  6. jamesweinn
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    jamesweinn New Member


    How is it possible Mr Perry, That's fine work my dear,

    Vast amount of info still its a nice ground work needed. i know.. I really appreciate for the work then for the information .. pretty much useful.

    Thanks Perry,
    James.




    .
    metal halide floodlights
    portable metal halide floodlights
     
  7. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi James,

    That is very interesting information which you have consolidated. Certainly some of it, can be used as handy guidance.

    By the way, am I correct, that you have repeated the same information twice. ? Maybe you could remove the first one, which does not have your link to your website, except if there is a reason to have it repeated twice. Just go to the bottom and click on "delete".

    Bert
     
  8. Grant Nelson
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    Grant Nelson Senior Member

  9. D.I.M.1
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    D.I.M.1 Junior Member

    Wow that's a lot of quotes but anyway, thought to ask what's the energy density of this new battery?
     
  10. CDK
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    CDK retired engineer

    For info on existing and future batteries, just one link is enough:

    http://www.batteriesdigest.com/index.htm

    Pay particular attention to the difference between theoretical density and actual one. Most "breaking news" is a journalist's misinterpretation of scientific publications. The scientists always communicate theory because that is their world, what the industry does with it is not their concern.
     
  11. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi CDK,

    I wish that somebody would expiriment with some larger solar panels, something like 12 Volt/ 36 watt type.
    That was quite interesting, the way the mirror/reflector was positioned in relation to the small solar panel, what a difference it made.

    Where the greatest gain for the boat users can be archieved, is when the sun goes down and you still want to draw some higher currents from the light falling on the normally horizontally mounted panel, to boost your battery bank.

    One does not have the risk to burn internally the interconnections through, but maintain the supply current as off it is at 12 noon.

    It has to stay practical and a hugh reflector wappering in the wind is also not practical. Did you had a chance to contact your friend?
    Bert
     
  12. CDK
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    CDK retired engineer

    Bert, I did contact him, but he is not a technician and lives in another city. But in the next few days he is doing another errand for me which takes him to the same route I was traveling a couple of weeks ago.
     
  13. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Thanks CDK, as long he is able to make some nice pictures, it should be fine that he is not a technician. In anyway he does us a favor and a given horse one does not look in the mouth. Pity that you don't have some larger solarpanels yourself, to come to the same conclusion.

    If we can increase safely the output power by 100% , it would also be a big saving for me, on the solar battery bank part. You buy 200 watt and get 400. Sounds like a good supermarket advert.

    Bert.
     
  14. CDK
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    CDK retired engineer

    My Dutch company had a distribution contract with Siemens Solarsystems for a number of years. At the time they had their headquarters on the Kraftwerkunion industrial zone near Düsseldorf, where they also did their research.
    They experimented with tracking systems, mirrors. Fresnel lenses etc. but at the end decided that these reduced reliability. The main market was telecom repeater stations, marine beacons etc. where maintenance would be very expensive.

    We experimented with mirrors and 3M reflective tape to increase the output of a panel and could easily obtain 150% of the nominal output, but not on fixed installations because sooner or later the reflectors cast a shadow and reduce the output instead of increasing it. To prevent that, the mirrors must be lowered, but that would require levers, swivel points etc.

    The only approved addition was a thin stainless steel tube that could rotate around a wire or bar, mounted over the top of the panels. It was very effective against seagulls: after a few attempts they considered the panels as dangerous and didn't come near them anymore.
     

  15. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Yes, we also had a wire spun over the top of the panels,whereby the seagulls did not have a grip on the panels no longer. But there were enough circling above the panels to make life difficult for the maintenance team.

    I am a different sort of bagger. If everybody say, it cannot be done, I say, sure there must be a solution. Yes, for permanent large installations and for far away sites, it is a problem to use reflectors. But like you said it can mean up to 150% increase. Most of the smaller yachts have only 1 or maybe 2 panels and a yacht is moving too much around on the sea to make something workable.

    But we talking about yachts and a yachtsman , who can easy shift the reflector in such a position every few hours or shorter, to have the pleasure from additional inflow of energy. Not expensive maintenance people who earn a fortune with overtime and distance travel.

    I will make over the weekend some sketches with proposals on how I would do it, on a yacht with only one or 2 panels.

    By the way, I got my solarcells from the Siemens components division in Balanstrasse in Munchen and the panels from the company in France which had a contract with the components group, I think it was a Philips owned French company.

    Bert
     
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