Basic Workshop Standards

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by fijiboats, Dec 13, 2008.

  1. fijiboats
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: fiji islands

    fijiboats New Member

    Our Marine Dept. want to set up a minimal standards benchmark where aluminium boat builders are assesed and certified to build boats up to 15 mtrs for the home market. We have no regulations for this at the moment. Any one like to throw up some standards that they think should be taken into account when assessing:-
    Workshops/workshop areas
    Welders
    Equipment etc?
    Our country has 4 boat builders and 3/4 million population. We must start at a very basic level, raising the bar over, say, a 2 years period.
     
  2. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: OREGON

    rasorinc Senior Member

    Standards for aluminum boat builders

    I would think you must set up either licensing or certification standards for a shop.

    1. Welding. All employees that do welding must operate under the supervision of a certifide welder.
    2. All materials used in the hull must meet the standards of 5086, 6062 or standards of Marine grade aluminum. Must be able to show proof of purchase of the marine grade of aluminum used.
    3.Installation of electrical systems must be done under the supervision of a certified marine electrician. Everything is different from residential or hotel standards.

    You must be able to see that schools or courses are provided for these trades both for the persons wanting to be certified but also for inspectors. Standards for these trades are easy to come by. At least here in the US.

    Those 3 things will insure a basic level of quality. QUESTION Who designed the boat? Is it seaworthy? etc?

    Fuel systems and fire standards must be an issue. Here the US Coast Guard sets the standards for boat manufacturers. Flotation and it goes on and on venilation etc. safety glass, insurance.
    You can easily get the Coast Guard Requirements just go on line--they also have standards for the back yard boat builder. All boats have to be licensed in OUR 50 states and Coast Guard RULES..and inspects..That will get you started. Everything is for Safety. Stan http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/education_safety/safety/boatwater/backyardboatbuilders.pdf
    http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuilder/downloads/PART1.pdf
     
  3. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    i can rememeber when I built my first to and under lloyds supervision, what a bloody farce, I had to teach the inspecter
    Look the first thing is to buy quality and powerful welders, then do a lot of test plates, test bends, around mandril etc
    Then nick break tests
    figure out what sort of weld prep you are going to run with, , double sided vee with land etc, and run tests for all guys
    the thing the tester, looks for when it comes to your weld test, is
    undercut
    lack root fusion
    cold lap, on fillets, that is when you break the weld you can see the root is not fused into the root or leg at the root, a very common fault, crak the amps until the weld is fused
    inclusions
    porosity
    It is really hard to get rid of all porosity, but various codes allow some, rather like a crane jib it is not weaked just because there are a few holes(bubbles) in the weld
    pm me with you email address
    cheers
     
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  4. DGreenwood
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    DGreenwood Senior Member

  5. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

  6. speedboats
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: New Zealand

    speedboats Senior Member

    New Zealands BITO (Boating industry training Organisation) has many training standards and systems that have been exported to other countries. Get hold of them as

    1. they are already in your back yard
    2. being a pacific island country we share similar interests as well as similar products...

    Assuming you are making trailer boats or boats under 8m then certified plate isn't always an option as it is only available upwards of 3mm. NZMSA (NZ Marine Safety Authority) and ABYC only require commercial boats to provide paperwork for the sheet used, doing it for every boat and on site verification of the sheet would make the 'red tape' cost spiral outa control, then you might as well import boats from us 'cause they'd be cheaper.

    Just now thinking... things may be somewhat a little difficult now the local Malitia has expelled the NZ consulate
     
  7. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    we may be talking to ourselves
    the shipyard up there, think was guv run, built a bulk sand barge for Nz awhile back, (powered) for Atlas concrete, upon delivery there were over one thousand faulty welds, all manner of other faults, she was never paid for and as far as I know still lays unused up in the Kaipara
    Ship and yachtbuilding, um, NZ has built some good uns BUT take Georgia super yacht alloy yachts , 75mmm of bog in places, saw an Huisman on slips there once, superyacht by Hood design, almost no bog
    personally if I were an owners rep, I would not accept a hull with so much filler(bog)
     
  8. welder/fitter
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    Fijiboats,
    Aside from the commercial marine vessel construction regulatory bodies - Lloyds, ABS(American Bureau of shipping) and Bureau Veritas - most countries have their own regulatory bodies which set requirements for constructing in aluminum, steels, etc. . In Canada, The CWB(Canadian Welding Bureau) produces codes & practices for such & inspects personnel for qualifications, as well as, inspection of weldments. The publications of most use to you would be W59 and W47.2 . AWS(American Welding Society) is similar in it's scope. Other members will be able to inform you as to their country's regulatory bodies. ISO is another consideration for environmental controls & sound workplace practices(MSDS organization, safety considerations, etc.). Hiring a qualified individual, on a 1 to 2 year contract to supervise the institution of codes & practices may be your best bet. Even if the vessels you build will be for local use, building to plans, following codes, etc., will allow you to consider expansion to global sales, in the future.
    Just one guy's opinion, hope it helps.
    Mike
     
  9. speedboats
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: New Zealand

    speedboats Senior Member

    wowie, 75mm, really?

    Always thought the mass application of filler/bondy/bog/mud, was a no no on new boats, we like to keep ours to a minimum, although ours are considerably smaller by comparison...

    Guess building something that big with that many faults and having it not paid for would be quite terminal!
     
  10. fijiboats
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: fiji islands

    fijiboats New Member

    Thanks To All

    Thanks everyone for taking the time to comment on setting up a minimum standards benchmark for existing aluminium boat builders in Fiji. Most comments though have missed the point. I did mention that our country has only 4 aluminium boat builders so it may be premature to suggest following American and New Zealand etc standards. I think they are mostly just too advanced and financially impractical for an initial basic level entry. (experienced, active aluminium welders can be counted on one hand). Any improvements to the current situation will have to be born by the individual companies so we need to start right at the bottom and come up to some of those overseas standards over a two year period. Care to lower your sights a bit? We are not totally hopeless, mind you. A couple of us have been building aluminium boats for over 20 years. You can see my company's design and build on;-
    http://fijiboats.weebly.com/
    Oh, and by the way, "Woosh" I hope you see that your not all talking to yourselves. I have to get my recommendations in by JANUARY END. I should point out that my company is not connected to government or the shipyard except for renting an area there from which we operate.
     
  11. eponodyne
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    eponodyne Senior Member

    Import some good welders and foremen from countries with experience. In the US particularly there are some very good aluminum welders who are begging for work right now. Use their expertise to help develop standards.

    You may want to consider placing the welding jobs under Governmental oversight, to include random urinalysis. I don't know what Fijians think of marijuana or methamphetamine or alcohol intoxication; but they play absolute hell with quality control and production.

    Keep it small. Make the welders, supervisors of others, whenever possible. Have a clearly designated hierarchy in place, and make sure there is room for newer employees to advance.

    Pay good wages. Poorly-paid personnel never do quality work for long.
     
  12. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    custom bicycle welders are begging for work
    and they are the best of the best
    including the aviation boys
    trust me
    if you need some actual artists with aluminum
    just dont give em a pee test
    they wont pass it
    they are however
    phenomenal welders
    to a man

    best
    B
     
  13. speedboats
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Location: New Zealand

    speedboats Senior Member

    As I said, contact BITO NZ, they will no doubt have some ideas, simply throw out what is non-applicable or not cost productive to your needs. Needing to have your submissions in before the end of the month means you probably won't have a lot of time to sift through screeds of paperwork, but you asked.

    Also here in NZ we have a self governing of sorts with "CPC". A vessel that is CPC certified means that it has complied with certain agreed upon rules, simply that the design is 'certified', has bilge pumps on board, uses a 'positive bouyancy system', nav lights and marine type wiring are used. There are a few other things, but all in all it is incredibly simple and it is only a minimum standard. It is also a voluntary system, so advertisers really push that there product is better because it is 'CPC' certified.

    My shop has no minimum requirement, simply a good safe and clean working environment (so staff don't get dead). The rest is attention to detail. If we put out crap work, word soon gets 'round and we don't sell any more boats (so our clients don't get dead either). Simply put, good profitable business practice should really be the minimum workshop requirement.
     

  14. speedboats
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 139
    Likes: 12, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 127
    Location: New Zealand

    speedboats Senior Member

    As I said, contact BITO NZ, they will no doubt have some ideas, simply throw out what is non-applicable or not cost productive to your needs. Needing to have your submissions in before the end of the month means you probably won't have a lot of time to sift through screeds of paperwork, but you asked.

    Also here in NZ we have a self governing of sorts with "CPC". A vessel that is CPC certified means that it has complied with certain agreed upon rules, simply that the design is 'certified', has bilge pumps on board, uses a 'positive bouyancy system', nav lights and marine type wiring are used. There are a few other things, but all in all it is incredibly simple and it is only a minimum standard. It is also a voluntary system, so advertisers really push that there product is better because it is 'CPC' certified.

    My shop has no minimum requirement, simply a good safe and clean working environment (so staff don't get dead). The rest is attention to detail. If we put out crap work, word soon gets 'round and we don't sell any more boats (so our clients don't get dead either). Simply put, good profitable business practice should really be the minimum workshop requirement.
     
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