Argentinian Navy Tall Ship seized in Ghana

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Number4, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. Number4

    Number4 Previous Member

    Argentina announced the immediate evacuation Saturday of about 300 crew members from the ARA Libertad, a navy training ship seized in Africa nearly three weeks ago as collateral for unpaid bonds dating from the South American nation’s economic crisis a decade ago.

    Only the captain and a few other members of the crew of 326 sailors will remain on the three-masted tall ship, a symbol of Argentina’s navy.

    Argentine President Cristina Fernandez decided to pull the rest out after failing to persuade authorities in Ghana to reverse a judge’s decision to seize the ship. The judge also refused to allow the ship to be refueled, leaving it without power to maintain essentials and respond to any onboard emergencies, the foreign ministry said.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...38883c-1b15-11e2-ad4a-e5a958b60a1e_print.html

    As an Englishman and ex serviceman, I have to say that this story cracks me up.:D:p;):cool::):rolleyes::p
     

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  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I think that it is symbolical gesture. It will have strong political implications in Argentina.
     
  3. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Cracks me up as well..external debt.

    Rank/ Country/ Total debt/ Per Capita/ % of GDP
    1/ United States/ 14,710,000,000,000/ $50,266/ 103
    2/ United Kingdom/ 9,836,000,000,000/ $156,126/ 390

    34/ Argentina/ 108,900,000,000/ $3,971/ 43

    What is that..about 2.5% the debt per capita and 11% of the % of GDP??
     
  4. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    There is a lot more here than meets the eye, and is barely touched on by the Washington post.

    Seizing a military vessel has always been considered an act of war, except when a biligerent vessel enters a neutral countries waters as the Germans did in Brazil during WWII. So Argentina would have every right to send their Navy to Ghana and take it back.

    Also Paul Singer is a vulture who preys on countries that are deep in debt. He loans them money or arranges loans at userous rates. In this case Argentina could not repay the loan. They negotiated a deal with Singer to repay 30 cents on the dollar and he accepted the deal. Now he is going back on the agreement and is coercing Ghana into seizing the Libertad, so he can either force Argentina to pay up (they don't have the money) or try to sell the ship. It is disgraceful that Ghana went along with this. The international community should be up in arms. Suppose this were the Coast Guard Sailing Ship Eagle. We wouldn't stand for it.
     
  5. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Singer is an interesting character. He was a strong supporter of Dubya Bush, he's been a major contributor to the Republican Party, and his money helped fund the 'swiftboat' ads that magically turned John Kerry's honorable military service into a liability instead of an asset. And he's thrown at least a million pro-Romney dollars into this year's presidential campaign.

    But he also poured major money into New York, on the side of making gay marriage legal in that state. And he was writing editorials warning of the 2008 financial meltdown a couple of years before it happened....

    add: I totally agree that seizing a military vessel from another country is an act of war -- even if it's just a training vessel. But apparently Argentina hasn't been treating the incident as such, and that rather surprises me. It's a country which isn't renowned for ignoring insults to its sovereignty....
     
  6. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    My wife knows more about this than I do. She follows politics a lot, and I find it mostly disgusting. But anyway, she explained that what Singer does is buy up a countries debt, for pennies on the dollar, and then sues them when they can't pay up. What a racket.

    I am surprised too that Argentina hasn't responded more forcefully. This could set a very bad precedent.
     
  7. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

  8. Number4

    Number4 Previous Member

    http://www.modernghana.com/news/425326/1/argentina-orders-sailors-to-evacuate-libe.html
    " Last week, Argentina replaced navy chief Carlos Alberto Paz and suspended two other senior naval officials over the dispute.
    The government is holding an inquiry into who was responsible for allowing the Libertad to stop in Ghana.

    Argentina defaulted on more than $100bn (£62bn) of debt in 2001 and 2002, the biggest default in history.
    Most of these loans were restructured in 2005 and 2010, giving creditors about 30% of their money back.
    However, some creditors including Elliot chose to hold out, pursuing the Argentine government through the courts to recover the full amount."

    http://www.modernghana.com/news/421878/1/ara-libertad-restrained-in-port-city-of-tema-ghana.html
    "Argentina's status as an international scofflaw has been well documented. International creditors have won more than 100 court judgments against the Argentina government, but Argentina has refused to honor any of these judgments and has repudiated bonds which it issued in good faith. A New York judge has characterized Argentina's refusal to pay its debts as an “absolute steadfast refusal to honor its lawful debts,” and that the government is “defying deliberately, intentionally, and continually.”"
     
  9. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    This means China can seize US warships to collect the debt instead of extending it. The legal implications will keep teams of lawyers busy for years to come.
     
  10. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    An aircraft landing in foreign soil and detained by that country is not the same. The Libertad was seized in a neutral Country to satisfy a debt and not for charges of violating a nation's sovereignty.
     
  12. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    The aircraft was forced to land after being rammed by the Chinese pilot in a miscalculation of the distance between the aircraft on the 3rd pass. It was a clear act of intimidation, admittedly a very brave one though reckless, having fatal consequences for the Chinese pilot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  13. Number4

    Number4 Previous Member

    Detained Argentine warship crew threaten to open fire

    Armed sailors on board the detained Argentine frigate, ARA LIBERTAD, on Wednesday threatened to open fire on Ghana Ports and Harbours Authority (GPHA) officials, if they attempted to move the ship from berth 11 to berth six, at the Tema Port.
    http://ghanaian-chronicle.com/detained-argentine-warship-crew-threaten-to-open-fire/


    South African minister admits a second Argentine navy vessel could be impounded

    When Argentina still has not recovered from the impounding of the Navy’s flagship, ARA Libertad, retained in Ghana, another piece of bad news was confirmed in Pretoria on Friday when South African Foreign minister admitted that a second navy vessel, ARA Espora, docked in Simonstown was exposed to a similar fate.
    http://en.mercopress.com/2012/11/03...cond-argentine-navy-vessel-could-be-impounded

    Seized Argentine ship, a victim of decades of failed economic management
    http://ghanaian-chronicle.com/seize...tim-of-decades-of-failed-economic-management/
     
  14. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Years ago(1988) a mate of mine whilst full of high spirits hatched a plan to don his Ninja gear & night raid Eagle to remove the large American flag! We talked him out of it 'cos I reckon they woulda shot him dowwn! Jeff
     

  15. Number4

    Number4 Previous Member

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