Are You Personally Prepared For a Natural Disaster?

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Submarine Tom, May 2, 2012.

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  1. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Hi PDW,
    software problem? - still needs to be reconciled and books set to balance and 700trillion is freaking insanity... The only way for that is for the collapse of the corrupt banking system, and the sooner the better, as a little pain now is better than "potential slavery" for your children and their children, unless you are one of the 1%? and deserve all you get for creating this mess of creating more debt to insure and pay for other debt in default... Which is what TARP, quantitative-easing and the other "pretty names" are all about - making murder sound 'nice' by calling it 'collateral damage'? . . A deferring of HONEST reconciliation and owning-up to blatant fraud at the 'big end of town'...

    Even the banksters and slimy politicians are beginning to realise the debts are too big to defer and collapse is unavoidable...

    Andiamo,
    If I understand your slant correctly I pity your grand-children for their miserable future...

    But the CAUSE or BLAME GAME is NOT my question, but -
    - - - - Are you prepared for that scenario? and HOW?

    One option I am considering is, - by moving to an underdeveloped region preferably a fairly remote island, where my skills and knowledge will be appreciated and I will be able to repair engines, make fuel, design efficient "permaculture" food gardens utilising 'companion planting', composting, worm farming, - - Add some electrical services, so all can survive in better comfort and circumstance than they have in the recent past...

    Just think, money is useless (except as toilet paper)? - no one has a job, no food, no petrol, no shops, no services - - unless you have something to barter / trade...

    Have you got a vegetable garden, 6 hens for eggs (4 eggs per day?), fruit trees, solar power for refrigeration and a little light, self collected water?
     
  2. Andiamo
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    Andiamo Junior Member

    Far better to do everything we can to keep community and society together. Community is what you need when a disaster strikes.

    I bet you couldn't keep your equipment running for 6 months without the economic supply chain.

    No offense. I couldn't.
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    PDW, the situation assumes you are in the midst of a sea of crap. Being in an urban or rural environment currently doesn't mater. If you are in an urban environment, then looting and stealing will only get you so far, certainly not a very safe way to expect to survive either. Hunkering down is just as futile, as you'll eventually have to fight off starving, probably better armed, hordes and worse, eventually run out of supplies.

    Supplies other then a rucksack, are a very near sighted and short term answer to a long term need. This said, if you can manage to hang on with some supplies initially, as you gain experience living off what's left of the land, then the more the better, but just not a logical route, considering what happens when society breaks down and people start shooting each other a rotting chicken leg or over a can opener.

    This has been studied (repeatedly) by the best minds and anyone that's been in combat or received military style survival training can attest, when the crap hits the fan, all you got is you wits, period. You can count on nothing else, because these things can be taken from you, in spite of your best preparations. If you don't know which plants are edible or how to find and purify water, you're screwed. If you drop me into the woods naked, I'll be cold for a night or two, but by the end of the week, I'll have food, shelter and something to wear and protect my feet. I'll also have made weapons for self defense, but mostly for killing game.

    It's really fairly simple with the right "mental tools", but most literally haven't a clue, which is why 90% of the population, will be gone in short order. Of the 10% remaining, 50% of these will not survive a winter or will kill each other off in mad attempts to steal things, rather then try to forage and live. The remaining 5% of the population will "self weed" from genetic disposition and other issues, leaving a couple of percent left to repopulate the world, which will be the heartiest and cleverest of the lot. At my age, I'll struggle to be one of the most hearty, but I'll easily survive into the remaining last few percent, just from experience and knowing how to do it.
     
  4. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Sorry but it is about time to face the facts, as are plainly writ large upon the walls, and recognise that "Humpty Dumpty" is a gonner, and that, - all the kings, (the king is naked ( & short)), horses, (have trampled the eggs), and all the kings men, (have stolen all that they can), cannot put poor humpty together again....

    Hi Par,
    I expect to meet and greet you a couple of years after the fun has started.... Nature takes care of itself and almost everything is lined up against humanity - mostly humanity in its ultimate stupidity by urbanisation, to destroy useful fertile farming areas - - on which is placed concrete jungles...
     
  5. Andiamo
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    Andiamo Junior Member

    Good luck. I don't think you'll make it 6 months without the economic supply chain. Then you'll realize how good you had it with such variety of food, technology, internet, tools, doctors, dentists, police, fire, and everything else. Pro-collapse pro-anarchist new-world-orderists are delusional. The worst have invested their money to profit when things collapse :( They should be set adrift and left to their own devices.

    OK, I find one thing in common. I don't like urban concrete jungles. If you think your friends and neighbors are going to go to anarchy when something happens, move somewhere else. Community is what will get you through a disaster.
     
  6. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Andiamo,
    Best of luck, as you may well need every ounce you can muster. The only thing I will miss is the net, and then not very much... I do not need gps, although I will use it whilst it is available... All else, I have which money cannot buy... I have trained in medicine and performed several minor surgical operations, I am well experienced in agriculture, agricultural chemistry and have survival skills as alluded to by PAR.

    It is a matter of using what intellect one has in an appropriate manner and leaving the hormones for the testicles... Most urban communities lack any social cohesion and will quickly go rabid and follow the worst kind of anarchy as soon as they feel "all is lost" as they once knew it... But that is not my concern... Par is the only one who seems to acknowledge and be aware of what happens when social norms collapse and society falls into disarray... Any mention of guns and ammo and I know the poster has lost the plot and will not survive... That is not the point of the exercise...

    Developing a sense of local sharing and community is part of the exercise... The key is working together cooperatively through a very difficult period of at least 5 years and likely 20 to 50 years before some sense of broader community humility can pervade society and for all to work together for a common good under totally different rules of behaviour...

    Remote and isolated communities have it in good measure, because they NEED it to survive from day to day... - - - 'Western Developed societies' have 'totally lost it' because mostly selfishness, 'its mine - get your own', rules or worse - - type of attitude persists as well as jealousy based theft and spite.

    Who in your path to work or your street would stop to help you if you were being assaulted and bashed and left, and they took your car? - NONE I will wager, and Now it is relatively well governed....
    Think carefully - where is your 'community"? - - - bon chance.......



    It may be appropriate to think what will happen if the US$, (only because you are purportedly inside USA), collapses and becomes relatively worthless in a week (and you may get 3 days notice)...

    - If it all starts overseas in Europe,
    - - - with Greece, Italy, Spain and a few others falling like dominoes at the collapse of some banks there,
    - - - and then insurance is claimed on loans etc.,
    - - - and quickly it all falls down....
    In less than 7 working days the US$ could become worthless.... No Doctors, NO Hospitals, NO services OF ANY SORT PERIOD
    - - That is what PAR is alluding to.... How will YOU survive this very real situation.... - - Is your boat fueled up, - - IS there food and other supplies aboard? - - Where will you go with your family? Have you developed a strong community spirit of cooperation and self help? - - - got vegetable gardens growing - - - fruit trees matured and healthy - - - Poultry laying eggs, a rooster to breed new chicks for meat? supplies of fuel for cooking (wood) water for drinking?, - - - batteries and generators and PV panels for electricity for refrigeration? - - - what about a couple of goats for milk?

    Where will they all go, or will they be shared with your cooperating neighbours? - - or will they kill them and eat them all leaving no breeding stock?
    - - What NEXT will you do....?
     
  7. Andiamo
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    Andiamo Junior Member

    If I have a medical problem on my way to work, people will help me. My life would be much harder and not as rich if things turned to chaos. I think most people around me see things that way. If disaster struck, I'll put my bet on continuing to work together as a society.
     
  8. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Good on you and good luck....
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Again, assuming the worst, regardless of the how and why, it's on you. Urban environments are not particularly good places to stay for long, mostly because you can't support the food portion of the equation. This coupled with the masses of people all vying for the same scraps, will leave you risking way too much, for a chunk of week old bread. There will be not "community" in urban areas for a long time, so the logical course is to leave the cities and get away from the madness as soon as practical.

    Only disciplined and cooperative people, will get together in small groups initially, mostly to share resources and offer communal protection. This will happen to a degree in the cities, but for different reasons, mostly exploitation of the weaker groups. Gangs and roaming bands of thieves will offer protection, possably from themselves, in exchange for food and water. This will not last long as the marauding bands will kill off or use up their resources quickly. The city has little to offer in regard to long term food and water sources.

    This means the logical path is to leave the cities and get into the woods, where you can find food, water and shelter. The wise survivor will stay relatively close to the cities, so they can make exploratory runs for things they might find useful. Personally I'd wait several months first, so that much of the fighting is over. A quick recon for an ax, or hand saw, maybe some lengths of line, possably several other things. Naturally, these types of items will be in short supply, but when 75% of the population has died off, stuff will just be laying around, for the taking.

    Surviving winters will be the most difficult, unless you live were I do. Even here we get enough weather to cause exposure issues. Florida would be a good place, but it's a difficult place to live in the woods, as we have man eating beasties, that unlike most other animals, actually like the taste of humans. I think the highlands in Georgia would be a better choice in the summer, migrating to central and south Florida in the winter.

    After a year or so, assuming a nuclear winter hasn't settled in and doomed the planet, bicycle pedal driven contraptions of every sort would be one of my focuses. I might even turn a generator to power up a radio, just to see if anyone else survived. By this time, I'd have crops growing, a few water supply locations, likely a trusted band of fellow survivors, all doing what they can. It would be an interesting mix as we'd have the benefits of technology. Not that we'd be able to use much of it, but that it would prevent us from actually being bronze age people. We'd live much like the Roman empire did, with running water, indoor plumbing, real buildings, etc., but we'd have some of the conveniences of modern life too, just because we're more clever then they were. It's not something I'd want to do, but I could if push came to shove.
     
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  10. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    PAR, I think that is fantasy. First you assume you will have the time and the means to get out of the city fast enough, not likely. Second, you assume you will be the only one wandering around in the woods alone, not likely; if you had the time to escape, so will a lot of others. And unfortunately, there is not enough wild land available to support a population of hunter/gathers. Consider that all nomadic groups needed very large ranges to move around in; they step up their camp, strip an area of game and wild edible plants, strike camp and move on. If even 10 percent of the population makes it out of the cities, that would overwhelm the few wild areas left, leaves you fighting with former neighbors over a few chipmunks and birds (which will be all gone in a matter of days). All modern countries MUST have intensive mechanized farming to produce enough food to feed everyone. You will have to grow your own food, best just to live in a area where that is possible long before everything goes to pot.

    Wilderness survival skills are important for being lost, being car broken down, or shipwrecked, or even plane wrecked in a remote area. But that is not really a long term survival strategy, you will spend all your waking hours looking for food and shelter, and not finding much on your own. That is why we need each other in cooperation to survive.
     
  11. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    No, I'm not part of the 1% bankster group. In fact I've refused to do their work all my life. Came close a time or 2 but always decided to do something else. I did make some money off of them many years back. And kept it.

    I'm the type who has no debts, doesn't gamble, doesn't watch TV, spends time learning stuff & building stuff for the sheer pleasure of it.

    As for the second question, the answer is yes. There's also a lot of edible wildlife within a rock throw of my kitchen window.

    PDW
     
  12. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    You know, the thing that strikes me most strongly about your postings is the underlying mindset.

    I am forcibly reminded of Bataan's postings WRT his father's experiences in the Japanese POW camps and how the US POWs would compete to the point of killing each other off, whereas the Brits and the Aussies would cooperate to help the survival of all.

    I think that's the difference in our attitudes. I assume that my local community will cooperate in the face of disaster and that collectively we will all be better off for it. You assume yours will tear itself apart and the best way of ensuring your individual survival is to run off into the woods.

    I fully realise that I could lose everything I have. What you haven't done is explain why I should *voluntarily* abandon it ahead of time to skulk in the woods. That's the bit I have difficulty with. What possible benefit do I get by doing so? Short of a tsunami, major sea level rise, nuclear winter leading to an ice age or similar major climactic disaster, I live in one of the best places on the planet for personal survival and one reasonably difficult to get to. Just where are the well armed ,starving hordes needed to dispossess me going to come from? Unless it's a military invasion by the USA, China or possibly India, it simply isn't going to happen. Who in the midst of a total world-wide disaster has the ability to project force and resupply across major ocean systems?

    Even back in the 18th & 19th centuries, when there was a lot more game and a lot less people, the population density of hunters was minute and had to be. They survived but didn't have a civilisation, nor could they replace the tools that even a 10th century European, Chinese or Indian had available. Except via mining the remains of 21C technology, your way leads straight back to the stone age.

    PDW
     
  13. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    well said p, there are definately 2 different mindsets here, i would expect our small community to pull together and help 1 another. americans seem to think that life imitates hollywood and everyone will fight for fuel and food like mad max. i wonder if it is because the u . s population is so large that people just don't know there own neighbours and therefore become suspicious of every one. i personally don't think any of these doomsday prophecys will come true but if they did i think australia will be okay . we can eat roo's and koalas.
     
  14. Andiamo
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    Andiamo Junior Member

    I think you have it backwards. "masalai" is purportedly inside Australia but he is the one saying anarchy and collapse is imminent. I trust in my community and my neighbors to have my back and I'll have theirs in America. I think it's a rural or urban mindset difference. I know my doctor, dentist, veterinarian, optician, store clerks, butcher, contractor, electrician, plumber, ups guys, sheriffs, to the tax assessor by name. My neighbors watch my property while I'm gone and I watch theirs for anything wrong. When a disaster happens, I'll count on my neighbors if I need help, including the professionals who have medical knowledge that I don't. Going it alone sounds adventurous, but need a root canal or new prescription and society is the only way.
     
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  15. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    The whole question is based on what sort of disaster you're trying to survive. You need to define that first.

    I can't see much worse than being knocked back to a mid 19C technology for a while, myself, even from an asteroid strike unless it's so major that it triggers a new ice age. Europe and the USA have problems with access to resources. We don't, at the mid 19C to mid 20C technology level.

    First thing we'd need to do is ship all the Greens off to Stewart Island so they could commune with unsullied nature while we rebuilt stuff for them to ***** about.

    PDW
     
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