Appreciate advice on used velvet drive price and mating with engine choices.

Discussion in 'Inboards' started by Northeaster, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    Hi Folks,

    I have bought plans for the Glen L Double Eagle in Aluminum, and will be building this winter.
    Although I don't need engine and trannie yet, there are a couple of used items available and would like advice on price and compatability.

    Below are performance #s for the boat. Will be inboard straight shaft or might look into home made surface drive as one member on Glen L site built for a stretched version of same boat.

    Can get a used Velvet drive (2:1) from my neighbour- says it ran good, but need clean up, paint, new hoses, etc - comes with felx plate and bellhousing for Chevy - I would need to make up adapater plate for other engines - and Ujoint / spline attachment to go to prop shaft - all for $500. Has 2nd on as well, but trannie only.

    Used older Vovo Penta model AQD32A/270 for $2500 for sale as well. Engine specs here: - basically in line 6 cyl 106 hp (not shaft hp though)

    http://vppneuapps.volvo.com/ww/PIE/...2-13-20-00&t=PDF1P&a=7760073&p=T416&d=Product Bulletins&s=486158&lang=en-GB

    Looking for advice on trannie price, which I think is good as well as compatability with this engine, or should I wait and look for good truck engine (gas or diesel)instead. Have access to used parts such as good sized heat echanger, oil coolers, etc. and can weld / fabricate exhaust elbows, etc.

    Please let me know what you think about buying trannie and/or engine now or waiting !!! Thanks!

    6 knots 10 SHP
    9 knots 25 SHP
    13 knots 40 SHP
    18 knots 70 SHP
    22 knots 105 SHP
    27 knots (*) 150 SHP
    31 knots (*) 200 SHP
     
  2. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    What speed do you want to go?

    How many miles a year will you go?

    $4,000 is a lot of fuel (miles) before a non-chevy small block would make economic sense.

    @ $.2 dollars more a gallon, that is around 20,000 gallons of fuel, before you begin to recoup the price of alteration ....

    If you plan less than 20,000 miles per year, I am not sure I see an economic upside?
     
  3. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    Good point. It will be less than 1000 miles / year, just a run about / fishing boat to take kids to beaches or for near shore fishing.

    I guess I like diesels, because of my experience with my old Yanmar in my sailboat, and my father-in-law has alot of experience with them in heavy equipment. I though it may be easier to have the diesel rigged up with less electronics than a gas engine.
    But, I am definitley open to gas engines as well. My brother is an auto mechanic and may be able to find me a decent truck engine as well. As you can likely tell, this is a low budget build.
     
  4. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Even if the diesel option is only $1,000 more, it will take awhile to make up the difference.

    Who will really do the maintenance?

    I enjoy diesel smell more than gasoline. But, you won't get much of either when you are moving.

    Since everything is set up for chevy, go with a chevy.
     
  5. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Northeaster Senior Member

    Thanks for the advice. As I am new to marine inboards, I will ask the following questions.
    - what is the best route for a low budget Chevy install? ie find a small block chevy engine used in working condition or rebuild one ( and then marinize it with heat exhanger, etc or use keep cooling and dry stack)
    or, what would i expect to pay for a used marine one ready to go? If not found locally, I think shipping cost would not be worth it.

    I would think that a 305 or 350cu would be more power than needed for this boat and too heavy - Plans say engine weight shouold be under 800lbs and less would I ecxpect be better. I would like to do maybe 18 - 22 kts.

    Is there a common smaller size - say 6 cyl and would this still bolt up easily?

    - Would it be best to stick with certain year Chevy's that avoid more compicated electronics, computers.
     
  6. kapnD
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: hawaii, usa

    kapnD Senior Member

    I think a 2:1 ratio is too low for your intended use. Look at a propellor chart before you purchase this item.
     
  7. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Northeaster Senior Member

    Could someone suggest a link to a prop chart, for inboard shaft drive?
    I see some on the net but the ones I see are for stern drive / I/O.
     
  8. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    Knowing that the double Eagle can be used with a wide range of hp engines (with max speed being affected of course) how do I know what size prop I should use and more importantly now, will a 2:1 trannie work well with any of the low or high hp engines, or do I have to know what engine I will have, before selecting the prop size and perhaps trannie gear ratio?
    I realize that these are all related, and in an ideal world would be planned out ahead, but when looking for used, cheap parts I might have to work backwards if possible.
    Any help would be appreciated!
     
  9. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    It is strange that the plans don't include all that information. The designer should make all the necessary calculations and include them.
     
  10. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Northeaster Senior Member

    sorry - they may include that info - not sure as will be my 1st plan / build.
    Plans are being shipped to me, should be here in a couple of days.
     
  11. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The plans do include basic powering options. A consideration in a boat like this is maneuverability or the lack of it. If you elect to use a straight shaft setup, slow speed maneuverability will be dismal and reverse will just plain suck. Once up on plane, she'll be much better, but nothing compared to an I/O or outboard setup. An out drive is a more complex arrangement, but it does offer much better handling and moves the engine box out of the most valuable real estate on the boat (the middle). This boat also could easily carry an outboard, which is about as simple a setup as you can ask for, plus frees up the whole cockpit from an engine box. The outboard and the out drive will be the most maneuverable, with the straight shaft lagging well behind in this regard. Lastly, draft will be fairly deep with a shaft setup, but both the I/O and the outboard can be raised clear, which is another consideration to ponder.
     
  12. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Northeaster Senior Member

    Par - yes, all important factors, and still in the decision process.

    steering / manouverability - have own dock with lots of room, not a great concern, although will go to marinas/ other docks sometimes, so would be nice.

    draft - will go to beaches, but a ft or so more won't be a big deal. Of course, lifting strerndrive or outboard and lightly beaching would be nice.

    Picked this design so we could use a reliable, low budget inboard rather than pay 10K + for a new outboard...but . there is a 3.0litre \mercruiser with stern drive for sale locally 1992 but with only 174 true hours, fresh water. seller wants about $2000 for motor, $1200 for sterndrive or likely both for $3000. Planned on shaft drive but maybe this is worth considering. \or, but engine and use velvet drive for $500, but still have issues above, plus need shaft, cutlass, stuffing box, etc.

    re: previous comment re: 2:1 reduction - guy on Glen L site built one and used 3 litre chevy/mercruiser with velvet drive 2:1 - says he gets about 20mph at 5 gph consumption
     
  13. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Expect at least 2' of draft with an inboard on that boat, likely a little more. Maneuverability isn't an issue around stuff you're familiar with. It's when you're someplace you don't know, that's crowed and confusing, where this becomes a problem. Beaching a straight shaft is not a wise thing to do, unless you have an unlimited money source.

    The Velvet drive can be had or changed over to a lot of gear ratios, from 1:1 on up. Ideally, you'll match the gear ratio with what your performance envelop desires, taking into consideration what your engine can spin.

    Lastly, picking up Alpha's with a 3.0 4L attached, can be pretty cheap. I can regularly find them, running (usually poorly) for less than a grand. They can produce an honest 180 HP, which will work well for your boat (saving weight over a small block), though a 160 HP 3.0 would be more reliable and you'd still have mid to high 20's MPH performance, with reasonable economy. Look around for spent Bayliners, with shot floors, torn up bimini's, rusted trailers and you can get everything you need for $1,500 - $2,000. Yeah, you have to fix some stuff, but this is the case with most things used.
     

  14. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    Northeaster Senior Member

    thanks for the additional advice. When I said beaching, I really meant pulling the bow up to a ft couple feet of watre, so I can unload kids / stuff before anhoring out a bit - as opposed to now having a sailboat with a 5 ft draft and having to dinghy everyone in.
    The design look safe to do this as the prop is portected by the keel, and there is a bottom bracket to the rudder - of course I woudl not do this in any kind of surf, as if the boat got turned around the rudder could get damaged.
    I am planning on only building a center console at 1st, and then maybe adding a small cabin the following winter, if we want. here is the design:

    http://www.glen-l.com/designs/workboat/dsn-dblla.html

    If I can get the 3.0l mercuiser chap enough I might buy it now, otherwise will wait and used the velvet drive with a used truck engine, gas or diesel if one comes up.
     
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