Anti Capsize / Damage and Sails

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Fanie, Dec 8, 2007.

  1. Richard Atkin
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    Richard Atkin atn_atkin@hotmail.com

    Fanie, I think the best way to avoid capsize or pitchpole is to reef the sail and slow down or generate a lot of lift at the bows.
    I liked the idea of a sheet release system when I first started reading this thread....particularly for beaching.....but now, after reading everything people say about unwanted release....caused by waves.... I have changed my mind. Wow, there's a lot of dots in that sentence.
    I agree with Meanz Beanz. Just play it safe.
     
  2. Richard Atkin
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    Location: Wellington, New Zealand

    Richard Atkin atn_atkin@hotmail.com

    What the f....I"M A SENIOR MEMBER NOW!!! LOOK AT THAT!!! WOOHOOOO
     
  3. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    All hail the Senior Member ! :D

    Does that make you and old Dick? ... ... ... Joking Joyce :D
     
  4. Richard Atkin
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    Location: Wellington, New Zealand

    Richard Atkin atn_atkin@hotmail.com

    Sorry Meanz....I don't reply to junior members
     
  5. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Well lah-de-dah! :D I will just back out of the room bowing then shall I :D

    Sir Richard Atkin ... has a certian ring.

    Why are they yelling OFF TOPIC?
     
  6. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    To get masalai to intervene. What for, this looks like it could be the start of some interesting discourse. Tossing 2 more red herrings in the mix. Sir Richard after 100 posts? After 1000 it becomes one to consider "The Royal Order of Old ********", a lordship no less.Heinz, you have more brownie points 31 beats 24!.
     
  7. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Hi Masalia

    I'm just verking out this brownie points thing? LOL Giveme a bit I will catch up eventually! A lordship eh? Can hardly wait!
     
  8. DungBeetle
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: The Planet Hoth

    DungBeetle Junior Member

  9. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    Dung, All I can say is it appears too many "sailors" appear to lack any seamanship skills, or are "gung-ho" thrill seeking idiots with no respect for others property (I presume a charter) & if their own boat, seriously out to test the rescue services or commit murder.

    As an academic exercise, could not be defended except where some of the superior expertise contributed with some sort of stability analysis. Knowing these guys I doubt they would dignify such drivel.
     
  10. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    Cris White warns for the risk a release system has
    but there is much to be said for and against
    personal preference i guess and havent seen all systems possible
    great would also be a good book on stability in multi's
    sort of like "the forgotten factor" by Marchaj
     
  11. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    Sliced bread and fuse breakers, brilliant defense of the concept, just brilliant, well considered, well thought through and I especially like the way it deals with the realities of sailing at sea.

    Hats off to you Dung.

    Hey Yipster, now its not like Chris has any experience is it? LOL I will go with him tankee very much :D I asked before but it seems to have been ignored. Do we have a definitive list of these things? I'd like to look at them all.

    I really don't mind the concept I just don't think that there is a solution that will work reliably on a lower budget cruising boat. Having complex systems on a multi million dollar french speed machine is one thing but your average cruising cat is summin else entirely.

    Another thing to consider is a ABS effect. More cars roll over because of ABS brakes than prior to there introduction. They studied it and found that people do a couple of things.

    1. They tend to drive to the limit of the better brakes in modern cars (not all ABS but in part)
    2. They can still steer under heavy breaking which means they take evasive action which leads to the rollovers.

    Does this mean the technology is bad, well I suppose no is the answer, not in the right hands. The point is that they create what is known as "moral hazard" where by humans will act more irresponsibly or take less responsibility because the capacity is there to do so. To me such a device falls into this category, it cannot and will not make up for imprudence and bad seamanship but it will embolden those who lack these skills. That will likely lead to worse situations over all than would have existed without such a device. In a perfect world with perfect skills and assuming that one of these things can made to work "as advertised" then great :D but....

    Love the picture of the Wharram "trying to fly a hull", arrrbulltit, gazuntight, thanks, we called it dropping over a wave in the old days. Gunboats fly hulls, one of the few "cruising multis" that will --- if you wanna call it that.
     
  12. Meanz Beanz
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    I just thought of something --- just say we have this device on a cruising multi. Sailing along on a beam reach and the device is triggered. Main releases boat's sail balance changes completely, she bears away as the head sail over powers the steering briefly (we are talking big kahuna gust right?) she screams off down the next wave. Bows bury just as the main takes up power again (by this time we a square or close and the released main is up against the shrouds or more likely somewhere in between), TRIP!, she goes over the front. Rescuers find her turtle with released main and scratch there heads WTF? Rescuer 1 - Well chief the airbags went off so I just don't get it why did she go in so hard?

    Beware the law of unintended consequences :D
     
  13. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    I am a dedicated believer in the KISS principle.

    Unless you are racing and are prepared to take the risks, there is no better way to prevent a multihull capsize than reefing early, and reefing often. Example:-

    Sailing from Sydney to Lord Howe Island in a Spindrift 45 catamaran, lovingly built by John Hitch to be as simple as a cruising catamaran can be, we ran into a 50kt southerly buster.

    We saw it coming and furled the genoa intending to hoist the working jib.
    It came on so fast that we scratched that idea and sailed on with mainsail only. As our speed passed 17kts we put a reef in the main which brought our speed down to a comfortable 11kts.

    We did this three times till we were sailing on a triple reefed main only.
    We were on a close reach and at no time did we ever feel unsafe.

    All the sheets for sail control and reefing ran to the cockpit, and we stayed warm and dry. The waves built up to 40ft, but they were well formed deep sea waves about 400ft long, so we just sailed up each one like travelling in an elevator,crashing through the crest at the top and sliding down the backs like being in a closed sled on a rocky hillside.

    We were on auto pilot the whole way from Sydney heads to Toms beach.
    Even though we were cruising we averaged 10.2 kts for the entire trip.

    Our monohull friends wouldn't believe us---but it's all in the log. :cool:
     
  14. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    masalai masalai

    Ahhhhhhh, visiting and reviving an old thread - I was wondering who posted all that rubbish in my name?.... Oh well I suppose Oops? is again appropriate :D:D:D
     

  15. Meanz Beanz
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Meanz Beanz Boom Doom Gloom Boom

    arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! [​IMG]
     
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