America's Cup declining?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Neverbehind, Feb 28, 2006.

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  1. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    AC afficianados might like a new book about Ellison and Norbert Bajurin the radiator guy. Title of the book: The Billionaire And The Mechanic. ISBN 13-978-0-8021-2135-6

    The first chapter has Ellisons boat,Sayonara, involved in the Sydney to Hobart amidst a hurricane. Heady stuff.

    Some details about getting USA17 to Spain through the Panama canal and Alinghi5 being flown over the alps suspended by a Russian helicopter.

    I'm only part way through the book but enjoying it thoroughly. I suspect that some of the text embellishes the tale but it's still a good read.
     
  2. Earl Boebert
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    Earl Boebert Senior Member

    Cranking up the kinetic energy calculator at:

    http://www.csgnetwork.com/kineticenergycalc.html

    we see that an AC72 doing 40kt carries 5.3 times the kinetic energy of an AC45 doing 35kt. So arguing risk issues based on AC45 experience should probably be done with care.

    Cheers,

    Earl

    PS. That AC72 carries 2.5 times the KE of an IACC boat doing 12kt, FWIW.
     
  3. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Maximum speed is one factor, but evaluating the risk only through the lens of speed is a bit reductive and can be inconclusive.

    The sciences of risk assessment and management, which can involve some pretty complex probabilistic math, take into account several factors in order to evaluate as realistically as possible the effective level of risk associated to a given activity. Some of the most important being the number of human lives at stake and the potential monetary loss.

    Both of these variables are several times higher in case of the AC72 foilers than they used to be for any of boat types previously used in the AC.

    Extending the risk-influencing variables to just three - max. speed, n. of crew and monetary loss, we find that:

    AC45:
    - 5 persons on board
    - 20 kts max speed (more or less)
    - cost of the boat: $1M

    AC72:
    - 11 persons on board
    - 40 kts max speed (more or less)
    - cost of the boat: $10M

    Plus:
    the expected revenue of the AC cup in SF bay: $900M (which is also a potential monetary loss in case of an event-terminating accident)

    Cheers
     
  4. Earl Boebert
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    Earl Boebert Senior Member

    I've been involved in (qualitative) risk assessments and I agree completely. I apologize for not being more clear. I was just addressing the notion that since the AC45s had no problems so we shouldn't worry about the AC72s, and used kinetic energy as a rough measure.

    Cheers,

    Earl
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Slavi, onboard video and sound today.
     
  6. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    I am watching it. Finally a race! Of the second ones, but a race...
    And yes, the cockpit views are finally aired on the TV. It is a whole different stuff when you can see the crew's faces, hear their voices and follow their maneuvers.
    Good, I am glad that it is finally happening.
     
  7. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Just spotted a Borg at the helm of Luna Rossa!

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    Great looking boats, ideal conditions, but it wasn't much of a tactical race.
    The result was obvious after a minute or so.
     
  9. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Agreed. Promised a bit more at some point, when the upwind distance was reduced to some 150 meters, but then...
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ================
    Give 'em a break Leo: each race so far has been better than the last and this one showed real pre-start action with Artemis winning the start and first leg in her very first race. And she had slightly better speed than the Italians upwind. Now if they can work on their foiling gybes and foiling boat speed(like the Italians have done so well) they will be competitive.
    Imagine what this will be like with the boats at the same level of crew preparedness!
     
  11. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    I agree that it did show some promise, Doug. But it was a boring time trial after a minute.

    And I can imagine what closer races would be like, but I'm still not seeing
    them. I also imagine what races would be like if all crews had identical boats
    and the races were a test of talent and ability. That would be a better
    spectacle IMO.
     
  12. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    From the front, they looked more like teenage ninja turtles to me.
     
  13. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    except that the Italians are also practicing and improving.

    Like the others, I thought there would be a race, but it only lasted until the first gybe.

    Interesting that the AC will be won in a main part by the boat that gybes best. In the past it has been won by the boat that sailed backwards best.

    So progress of a sort.

    My Laser sailing brother always complains that to win in Lasers you have to learn how to sail sideways, he originally got a Laser so he could have fun sailing fast offwind.

    Richard Woods
     
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===============
    If he doesn't already know you should tell him about the foiling Laser and show him the video......
     

  15. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Has anyone convinced anyone else about anything?
    I've seen a few admissions of interest in minor issues. A little willingness to admit some minor quality by both sides.
    In spite of some clearly stated opinions. (Not always the case).

    But this is the same conversation as on page 1.
     
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