Advice on repairing Sampson posts - Everdure/resin?

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by Lynton, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. Lynton
    Joined: Aug 2015
    Posts: 1
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Sydney

    Lynton New Member

    Hi All

    I have removed the aft corner Sampson posts from my old 26" timber cruiser as I noticed that the stainless steel bolts were loose. Sure enough the heads cracked off the bolts so I've bought nice new stainless kit to replace these fasteners. I'm keen to give the actual posts a birthday and was planning to treat them with the full 5 coats of Everdure and then paint with a couple of coats of white enamel.

    My questions are:

    1) Am I on the right track?
    2) We have had recent rain...how long must I leave the posts to dry before I can apply the Everdure...days or weeks?
    3) Should I use a resin or similar to fill in some of the cracks?
    4) I'm keen to polish the top plates (presumably brass?)...what's the best approach for these?

    Please refer to the attached image.

    I'm a new boater so apologies for the basic questions and any advice is appreciated.

    Thank you

    Lynton
     

    Attached Files:

  2. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    They are in poor condition with a lot of cracks looking at the photo. Mine was like that and it snapped off after a wake boat went past the jetty. It was soft inside. I would copy them and make 2 new ones if it was me.
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 473, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Everdure is a grotesquely diluted epoxy, about 67% solvents, so it doesn't do much. It's a left over paint product, from the days before industry testing showed it was nearly useless. A fellow countryman of yours and a buddy of mine, has this about Everdure and simular products > http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/Saltpreservative2.html <

    This said, a coat or two of Everdure will help paint stick a wee bit (a few percent) better, but that's about it. It's not waterproof (not even close) and it doesn't "preserve" anything. The adhesion improvements in my testing, compares to industry results and a 2 - 3% improvement in peel strength, isn't enough to buy a whole new set of goo's, not to mention the application trouble and additional time necessary.

    Those posts are badly checked and there's no goo in a can that can help. The stock is just way too big to consider anything other, than traditional rosin as a crack packer. This packing is a beeswax or paraffin and pine rosin product (a little oil tossed in for good measure), that will fill the gaps and prevents much of the moisture from getting in, with a better aesthetic, without fooling anyone about the cracks. Any hard filler material will just fall out, as the timbers are too big to control their internal stresses. Simply put, this rosin will still show the cracks, but they'll appear to be mostly filled.

    Considering their general shape and simple geometry, why not remaking them, possibly a laminate of thinner, stiffer hardwoods. An afternoon with a table saw and some glue will produce these pretty easily and the plates can be remounted all buffed and waxed. I prefer a real clear coat, but wax works too. If you laminate from thinner stock, keep the thicknesses at 1" (25 mm) or less, so internal stresses don't cause this to happen again.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
  4. DGreenwood
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 721
    Likes: 38, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 507
    Location: New York

    DGreenwood Senior Member

    Seriously. I am right there with PAR on this. Considering the potential importance of these two attachment points, and in deference to the designer that decided these were important devices to have aboard, I would replace them with something rugged and reliable like Oak or Black Locust or...some other tough material and you can rest assured you have an attachment point that will hold against the destructive loads that the sea can dish out. This ain't a cosmetic thing!
     
  5. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    My post must be invisible::rolleyes: the o p hasn't returned anyway.
     
  6. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 2,323
    Likes: 104, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 871
    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    Hi,
    One post wonder.... actually two sampson posts....... that makes Lynton a sampson posts poster

    For Lynton,
    1...No, buy some seasoned hardwood, maybe some blue gum, Turp, spotted or tallowood of equivalent size & remake as WP suggests & refit .
    2.... see 1
    3.... No, see 1
    4... get some metal polish & rag, every time you visit your boat take pride in shining up the end plates on your brand new samson posts:)
    I am invisible too, best thing is being transparent.
    Jeff.
     
  7. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 8,395
    Likes: 459, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The name says it all, doesn't it, "Sam(p)son", You don't want to be the Delilah of yachting by robbing the boat of the full measure of strength of key structures.
     
  8. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    Must be the diet I've been on. Is redgum any good jeff. I have to make a samson post too. My ketch has 1 at the back and none at the bow. First time i have come across that.
     
  9. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 2,323
    Likes: 104, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 871
    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    Yeah great especially if you like to mix politics with music......

    Sorry- Eighties flashback;)

    Honestly nearly any Aussie hardwood towards the dense end of the spectrum would be good so long as the top end is free from gum veins & similar split inducing faults, any thing with dense or interlocking grain, good to get dry & feed with oil. Some special attention to sealing the perimeter of deck penetration essential & the plates on top are best, sometimes we see a bit of copper sheathing material on top- gives me the creeps- all I see is sharp edges there.... one of our vessels at work is like that but cant change it. I like to see some taper below decks also.

    Jeff
     
  10. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 473, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    If you want large timbers to remain stable, they need to be "built up" from thinner stock. There's just too much material for any coating to seal effectively, given the amount of movement those likely 6" square hunks of timber will contain. As an example, those major checks probably move an 1/8" through wet/dry cycling. Nothing short of dipping them in molten metal, will stop that much movement. I've seen this on big timbers many times, solid masts, mooring posts, deadwood assemblies, etc.

    I think I mentioned it previously, but I agree with Jeff, Australia has many hardwoods that will easily do the deed and if laminated from 1 by stock, can be encapsulated so no movement will occur.
     
  11. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    Par. The boats i have owned have all had solid hardwood posts and last for years. I can see your idea is better but the solid posts definitely have a long life anyway.
     
  12. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 8,395
    Likes: 459, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    When I see laminated beams and finger-jointed pine mouldings being used in new homes, I realise good timber is in short supply. Replacing those old Samson posts should be dead easy, though, they're not much more grandiose than a fence post. I'd be inclined to go to a demolition yard and select something that is nice and dense, and definitely well seasoned !
     
  13. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    I just got it.:idea: I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed. I was only 19 is one of my favorite songs.
     
  14. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 473, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Agreed a big 'ol post will do and they do live a long time. The existing posts likely can be repaired and reinstalled and remain in service, but I think it's the aesthetic that OP is more concerned about, in which case, the laminate idea was offered.
     

  15. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 2,323
    Likes: 104, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 871
    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    It is a really great song, though I've heard that the lyrical timeline don't fit the facts of the enlistment & conflict, shouldn't take anything from what's a terrific artists interpretation and perspective. Read a book last year by Mark Dapin(?) that seemed to give a in ways more positive view of Nashos & conscript experience..... I was only a kid in the 60/70s... the Skyhooks lyrics ring true to me from those times, there certainly was a horror movie on the 6.30 news.

    Here's a link just for the rest to get the context of the folk/rock band referenced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urtiyp-G6jY

    The eighties was to me the best in terms of celebrating & recognising our cultural identity..

    Jeff
     
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. manos mit
    Replies:
    21
    Views:
    4,528
  2. Bug_hunter
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    544
  3. CarrieBishop
    Replies:
    10
    Views:
    2,527
  4. grjack
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    1,335
  5. nbehlman
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    1,416
  6. Smeeagain
    Replies:
    11
    Views:
    1,818
  7. Clinker42
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    1,986
  8. jhoward114
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    1,728
  9. Gadflyjack
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    3,159
  10. mike_ct
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    3,492
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.