Advice on a boat i saw in Alexandria

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by Vulkyn, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TeddyDiver again.

    Only fitting for getting the answer ! :p
     
  2. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    What engine would that hefty boat need ? its around 10-11 meters 32-36 feet.
     
  3. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Really? The picture of floors didn't help?

    Maybe it would be helpful if those "experienced" posters could stick with what they have experience with, as floors are plainly visible. Maybe a computer generated, 3D visualization would be more enlightening for you TANSL.

    Sorry for the gentlemen reference, if you had difficulty with it . . . ;)
     
  4. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    They look like floor joists to me.
     
  5. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Since we solved the floor issue !

     
  6. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    Vulkyn,

    That is a traditionally built wooden boat but it seems the builders are not so traditional. What I would be looking for are the reinforcement on the "copy frames", the "defining frames", or simply called frames. These are the thick and heavily reinforced ones usually alternating between simple ribs. Sometimes, there are frames, interspaced by two ribs so it goes something like this. Frame, rib, rib, frame, rib, rib, frame and so forth.

    I see some reinforced frames but only in the area of deep keel.

    I am attaching the method by Lloyd's Register. Did not vary much from the traditional except that they allow formed metal brackets. Attached also some tradional method of the old times.

    Suggest you familiarize yourself in traditional wood boats by borrowing/buying the book "The Art of Dhow-building in Kuwait" by Ya'qub Yusup Al-Hijji or "In the Wake of the Dhow" by Dionisius A. Afius. If they are missing that reinforcement, then they must be missing other things also. You will not be able to get the LR rules on wood and composites as it is very rare.

    One thing to look for also is that in traditional wooden boats, the keel is arched upwards in the center. Wood, being limber, flexes to a straight line when the ship is loaded.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    If we understand as "floors" what hoytedow indicated in post # 8, I think the boat has no floors.
    The boats are usually carried to the dry dock, at least every five years. At such times it is very handy to have "floors" to hang the efforts of support points in the dock. Those are the groundings to which I referred.
     
  8. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    I think hoytdow answered that ....
     
  9. FMS
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    FMS Senior Member

    In English the same word often has multiple definitions depending on context.
    Floors:
    Frames that run from the keel out to the turn of the bilge or to a point where a transverse horizontal line from the top of the inner vertical keel meets the side of the ship. At the outer extremity of the floors the frames are attached and run up the side to the deck line. The floors and frames together make up the major portion of the transverse structure of the ship's structural frame.
    Sole:
    Cabin or cockpit "floor" (what would be a "floor" in house construction).
     
  10. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Thanks FMS, I think to myself "floor" have the same two meanings that you have given. Speaking of the structure of a ship, I understand that the boat in the picture has frames ranging from the keel to the side, probably to the deck. If that is so, I think the boat does not have "floors". I'm not saying they are necessary, but it would be good to have them. But the structure of a boat is very versatile, can be done anything that the designer wants, if calculated properly. Perhaps the frames are calculated to withstand the stresses that I indicate.
     
  11. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    The issue raised is for the function of the floors not the term. in other words if the function performed which is holding the sides together is achieved from the pictures drawing then the point is covered.
    Can we please go back to the topic at hand which is the evaluation of the boat itself and what fitting would it require like engine power / size ?

    Thanks
     
  12. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    You are quite right but one of the important things, very important, that you should check is that the structure is properly sized and assembled and the material in good condition.
    As for the question you ask about fittings, engine and equipment, without more data give advise is not easy.
     
  13. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    It just amazes me at the lack of experience displayed in this thread. Some of you may have some larger craft expertise, but small craft, not so much. Maybe it's just that you understand some technical aspects, but haven't practical experience (I know that's the case with one poster).

    Chris Craft, Thompson, Owens and Lyman, just to name a few built lapstrakes using just this construction method (for decades), yep without the structural floors you're attempting to describe and insist must be there. I've repaired and restored countless lapstrakes and they have floating floors just like these, often fewer in count. In all of the diagrams you've shown RX, not one example is a lapstrake. Unlike other building methods, lapstrake carries a much higher longitudinal stiffness in it's planking, having built in stringers at each lap. This coupled with the fact its the lightest of the traditional build techniques, means it usually doesn't need to create a bigger flange at the bottom of the beam, like carvel or strip plank (traditional). In concert with this are the sawn futtocks, which look quite stiff and the likelihood the soles will be tied to additional stringers and engine beds, makes structural floors redundant. The only reason you choose a lapstrake build is for lightness, as aesthetics don't count structurally. Of course, Chris Craft, Lyman and all the rest just could have been wrong too . . .

    [​IMG]

    The inside of a Chris Craft, notice anything unusual?

    [​IMG]

    Maybe you'll find some in this Lyman.

    Both of these boats are considerably smaller then the boat being discussed, but I've worked on Sea Skiffs over 32' that were built just like this, of course having deeper bilges and considerably taller stringers and beds.
     
  14. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    PAR, very interesting what you say. Does that aswer Vulkyn´s question?
     

  15. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Thanks for the detailed clarification PAR and the reference ....
     
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