A solar hybrid ro ro ship.....

why build solar panels between the skyscrapers when here in australia we have millions of square kilometers of dessert.... build the solar stations out there, connected to the grid and you can tap off the power whereever there is a socket... oh wait, its already happening...

The losses in transmission of electricity are offset by increased efficiency of bulk electricity generation ie steam turbines vs oil burned in a piston engine...

To fill a car up with gas costs around $100 here... to charge the tesla car battery from mains power in order to get a similar distance costs about $20. So after the life of the battery is spent, you break even financially in ~10years. This is why we are only now seeing the emergence of the technology, its only just starting to make sense financially... just... As the technology gets cheaper, it will make more sense.

If you think we will be driving around is diesel powered cars forever, your head is buried in the sand...

 

Hi Groper,
I guess you are refering to my post when you said

"If you think we will be driving around in diesel powered cars forever, your head is buried in the sand... "

If you look again I think you will find I said no such thing. I know for sure we will not. Infact I think biofuels will not work either. For example I calculate that we will need 25+ hectares of sugar beet per 747 flight if we were all to switch to bioethanol.

To start comparing prices is one thing, to discuss the environment is another.
If anybodys decision to go electric is purely financial then good for them.

Here in London there are people driving around in electric cars with smug looks on their faces that they are some sort of ecowarrior. The fact is, the power is generated in a nuclear reactor in France, travels 100's of kilometres along metal power lines, then is stored in toxic batteries. The construction of all the components required has involved mining operations from across the globe, a huge expenditure of energy in manufacture, and massive pollution.

We do not have any desert here, not so much sun, and many more people.

This electric revolution being a green revolution is complete madness.



Best Wishes
Adam

 

You have got to develop your cynicism plus your reading comprehension.

Neither one has been launched.

It might reduce diesel fuel use by 20%. That is different than 20% energy saving because the energy and cost to recharge the batteries is not included. Nor is the cost of disposal and replacement of those batteries after maybe 8 years. The 19-24% statement is pure, unproven puffery.

This thread is about solar powered ships.

The one site you posted was from Norway, the other from Scotland. There is no solar power to be gotten in those countries.



I just get the feeling that they are puff pieces arranged by companies and governments utilizing all the trendy catchwords of 'green', 'solar', 'hybrid', 'energy saving' that basically extract money from multitudes of taxpayers to enrich a few politicians and businessmen.

.

 

The original post mentions the Emerald Ace.
http://gizmodo.com/emerald-ace/
http://news.panasonic.net/archives/2012/0629_11250.html
Personaly I am having a very hard time coming to terms with this being an eco ship.

Here in London, at 10.45am, on a business day, it is snowing and there is zero breeze. Current UK electricity consumption is 50,763 MW.
If we all start driving electric cars, trucks, and boats this will massively increase.
How the hell are we to generate all this power with zero emmissions?

 

I'm sure I posted to this weeks ago, but it has disappeared as well as in "Find all posts by samsam", none of these posts show up.




Basically, all you have to design the system for is to satisfy publicity purposes in relation to public relations and government grants of money. It only operates while in port, and even then generator backup is a flip of a switch away. A solar panel array large enough to look good photographed from the air is a priority, otherwise all batteries can be recharged by the diesel engine propulsion system while under way, and the supplemental diesel generator can be used in port when needed.

If you consider a few percent significant. And if you don't take into account the ecological damage of manufacturing and disposing of all the batteries.

That's kind of funny.

It is a business collaboration of

Paid for by taxpayers...

 

Also...very soon the EU will by taxing Ships...carbon trading or something.

http://www.joc.com/maritime-news/in...ssions-reduction-plan-next-year_20121001.html



Solar Electric boats in your fleet may be a clever way to lower your carbon footprint and permit you to keep the old timers chugging for longer .

Coastal short haul ferries in the Mediterranean may be suitable for solar assist ships and may benefit the ship owners with tax credits.

Perhaps the Norwegians are eye balling this market

 

The solar panels on the Emerald Ace are claimed to produce 2.2 MWHrs. This means you could run a 4400 Kw motor for half an hour a day.
After a billion years of evolution our only solution to environmental catasrophe is to raise taxes.
The only result of this scheme will be that
a/ the EU and their governments will raise more revenue.
b/ the banksters will raise more revenue.

The environment will be no better off and Joe Blogs will end up worse off funding a/ and b/.

 

Well for all the negative comments, what about refreshing your horizons and ask the Australians whether the solar powered ferry is still operational in Sydney. As far as I am informed, there are a number of new ferries after 2001 in use. As per photo's the 2001 solar powered ferry..
Bert

 

The only viable solution to a real and significant reduction in carbon emissions IMHO, is nuclear base load power supplemented with renewables such as wind and solar.

Dealing with the waste is a problem, although the amount of waste is tiny compared to the power produced so its a better option IMHO.

Interesting i read somewhere that Denmark is all pro-green politically, and claim over 20% of their energy is generated by renewable wind etc... yet France, despite being a larger country with higher energy consumption, actually has lower carbon emissions. This is because the remainder of denmarks power generation is coal fired, as opposed to frances mostly nuclear generated... ironic but food for thought... So whats worse, a planet warming or nuclear waste disposal and associcated health risks???

 

Hello BertKu,
As far as I can tell that is not a solar powered ferry, but a diesel ferry with some solar panels on its roof. I am just guessing at the size of them, but I am going to say it is not producing more than 10kw from them. So I am guessing again it has hundreds of diesel horsepower and these solar panels are making not more than 5% of its power. I would be completely fascinated if you could prove otherwise.
4m x 2m x 8 panels x 150 watts per m2= 9.6kw
Hi groper,
I used to live in New Zealand, I always thought that the best thing about the place was that it was nuclear free. They will not even allow a nuclear warship in their waters. If you think that nuclear power is a solution, then good for you. Personaly I think that running a nuclear reactor so that people can sit around their Playstations and iPads is an utter disgrace, and that if I was somehow elected as dictator of the United Kingdom, subject to Her Majesty's approval, I would immediately shut every last one of them.
Best Wishes,
Adam

 

Well yeah, going by the map I posted, Australia has about 700% more solar capabilities than Norway and Scotland. And so does South Africa. I can imagine it being done easily in those places. But what is being done actually? A putt-putt ferry going slowly back and forth across the harbor or giving harbor tours for a bunch of eco-tourists? A serious ro-ro ferry is different.

I agree when Alan Craig says "I think the solar ro-ro hybrid ship might be feasible for short repeated trips."

The trick is to treat it like a battery powered drill, in that you would have multiple sets of batteries for one ship. Say like 3 or 5 sets of batteries. The ship runs on one set of batteries. A set of batteries could be in a shipping container, being solar charged up miles away from the harbor. The ship pulls in and the fresh battery/container is rolled on and hooked up, the depleted one taken away to the solar charging station to be recharged. The ship would makes it's passage and the batteries switched again at the other port in a matter of minutes. The ship wouldn't need any solar panels or any accommodations to charge batteries, but would only need a backup generator in case of some sort of snafu.

Being in the mindset of the ship having to have it's own solar generating capacities is a bit like a regular ship loading crude oil and having to have it's own refinery to refine its fuel while underway.

 

I leave it over to the Australians to comment. I do know that there is a ferry in Sydney build afterwards, with large folding up solar "sails" which was definitely running on solar only.

One has to understand that with electrical power, due to the torque and efficiency, more can be done with less power. Also one can select solar cells which spectrum suits overcast weather better. Bert

 

Hi Bert,
I am sure that you mean these guys...
http://solarsailor.com/
Very impressive boats, but I do not see one that does not have a motor.
Incredible that someone thought to put a sail on a boat and utilise wind power to propel it. Revolutionary!
Next they will be growing their own boats made out of wood from trees.
That would be something really special.
Maybe I should patent the idea before they do.
Best Wishes,
Adam

 

I feel deeply sorry for you Adam, that you are living in England, no sun, just rain and occasionally a few sunbeams through the clouds. My wife wanted to go for a holiday to England, WHAT I said, I could as well stay the hole day under the shower here in South Africa !!!.

Yes, the Australians have made good progress in utilizing sun energy. That they were so clever to utilize the wind for their solar sail and have double gain, is even more impressive. If you have lots of time on your hand, could you not make me a super capacitor, like the ones created by EESTOR. I bet they were bought up by parties who has an interest, in not having the whole world changed from using oil products . Charging and discharging some hundreds of thousand times, very lightweight. No more battery problems. If that product would have been brought to the market, indeed ships could have some Megawatt of energy stored with high current charging times, peoples eyes would pop out. All what I need is a 24 Volt 100.000 Farad, one unit. I would be very happy. Bert

 

The ssolar ships in syd are hybrid as far as i can tell... That was also the idea of the beginning of this thread...

I like Sam Sam's battery in a container idea... But the battery does not have to be "taken away" it could just be plugged in at the dock. This would allow slower charging. The idea is the company that operates the ferry also operates a solar farm out in the dessert which receives input credits for the power generated to offset the power consumed at the dock charging stations.

Every second house in my local area has a 2-5kw grid tie solar inverter system mounted on its roof. The people that installed the larger systems no longer pay energy bills...