a few questions

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by boatenthusiast, Aug 28, 2015.

  1. boatenthusiast
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    boatenthusiast Junior Member

    hey guys browsing the internet today got me to wondering about a few things and i thought this would be the best place to get them answered since everyone here seems to have experience

    question 1 : are bronze nails and screws that come in fastening kits like on clark craft and glen l worth it? if not what would you recommend

    question 2 : how long can i store fiber glass materials like epoxy etc for? if i buy them now will they still be good in 5 years?

    question 3 : can i construct one of those portable tent sheds and leave my materal in it unheated during the winter, would my wood be alright or do i need a heated shed

    question 4 : i read alot on forums people asking about putting in a air conditioner or a heater on their boat, my question is why dont inboards have a heater and ac on them like car motors do since they are basicly car/truck motors

    question 5 : i read this on a forum, that a boats safety increases every 6 feet, is this true?

    thanks for your answers.
     
  2. Richard Woods
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    I prefer st steel screws and cordless driver. You can adjust the pressure and don't need someone to "dolly up"

    epoxy 5 years no problem. Polyester maybe 1 year, less in clear containers. Glass indefinitely if kept dry (dehumidifier recommended)

    yes a polytunnel works, dehumdifier recommended and watch for condensation

    cars are are cooled, boats water cooled, but you can have hot water heated by the engine

    no, not necessarily!

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  3. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member

    # 1, if your building a lifetime monument to the boating world then use bronze. I plan on using galvanized metal screws MADE IN THE USA. Foreign made screws, bolt, etc. you never know what they used as a recipe. Canada-- OK
    # 2, Materials keep indoors and dry and not allowed to freeze will last years.
    Liquid materials check with the manufacturer.
    # 3 NO, wood will absorb moisture from the air and can freeze.
    # 4 It can be done. Uses more fuel than a generator which uses 110 volt for A/C. Also less noise .
    # 5 ???
     
  4. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    I prefer products made overseas. There is no reason to limit yourself to the most expensive goods in the world.

    That said, your choice of fasteners depends on what you intend to use your boat for and where you intend to use it. The fasteners included in a given kit are one designer's choice, nothing more. Sometimes designers make good choices, sometimes not so much. One type of fastener is not the best for all locations or uses.
     
  5. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    One proviso about storing epoxy - look at the hardener life, the resin will keep much much longer. The hardener life span as recommended by the manufacturers varies from approx 2 to 5 years. Best kept cool and in a dark cabinet, same for Polyester.

    For long life S/Sscrews and bolts are better then bronze but if you go to the latter ensure proper Silicon Bronze not just hardware brass...;)
    I also prefer slotted heads not Pozi, because if you ever need to get them out again, you get more torque on the head. A bit dependent on exact application though.

    Timber is best if kept dry and without wild swings in atmospheric moisture, ply included. It won't necessarily degrade too much but apart from possible warping in direct sun on one face, you need as low a moisture content as possible for good epoxy bonds. Quite a bit of timber in yards outside will need some drying time before use, even if tarped' in the yard.
     
  6. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Unlike what Jammer suggests, fastener choices are fairly standardized and designers don't arbitrarily make these choices, unless they are amateurs or very inexperienced. Bronze is hands down prefered, if the budget can tolerate the cost. Stainless is the more cost effective choice, though some stainless is much better in this regard. Store bought stainless is usually 304, which isn't suitable in salt water, but usually fine above the LWL on freshwater boats. 316 or 316L is preferred on saltwater craft, but these too still can have issues. Brass is the redheaded stepchild of the copper alloys and other than holding a picture frame to the bulkhead , inside the cabin, has little use on a boat. One exception to this is naval brass which can be employed, but is usually reserved for cast pieces of significant size. I've never seen a naval brass fastener, except decorative. In most cases, your fastener choices are limited and related to what you're holding down with them.

    Epoxy can be kept a long time, if it remains sealed, but once the can or jug is opened, hardeners will change color quickly, especially in in metal cans and shouldn't be trusted on structural joints over 18 month of being opened.

    As Suki suggest timber and plywood is best kept stable and well stored. This means stickered up and flat, away from direct sunlight and direct water contact (rain, morning dew, etc.)
     
  7. AndySGray
    Joined: Jun 2014
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    There are people who do, it is quite common to run the coolant through a calorifier/Hot water tank with a coil inside so the coolant doesn't mix with the water system.

    AC is less common, usually because the difference in volume of a car interior, also think about when you want it - usually when you moor up for the night.

    On a typical car motor the AC can be 10% of the motor load, but if you only want that 10% running a big inboard vs a much smaller Gen-set makes little sense.
    On larger boats there are systems where a mixture of water/antifreeze is cooled by an engine mounted compressor. This is pumped round at night with an electric blower providing the cool air, and can be quite an efficient system, even being able to be integrated to assist the fridge/freezer cooling.
     
  8. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    If you can't trust the fasteners a designer specified, it would be pretty dumb to build the boat he designed.
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    If you're asking questions about the appropriate fastener type, you probably don't know enough to question the designer's choices and should trust he did. Again, I've never seen a kit that used inappropriate fasteners. I have seen kits where they were not the best available, but they have always been suitable, usually with a note about their specific employment.

    If you're referring to the "Cheap Plans" thread, yeah, more of the same from Jammer, who tends to drop in, make ridiculous comments and insults, then when pressed for an explanation, he disappears. I'm going o make it a point to follow every post he makes and insist, he offers up these explanations and point out the type of forum contributor he is, from now on out.
     
  10. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    You mean it doubles every six feet of extra boat length ? Sounds very arbitrary and simplified, doesn't it, and cannot be taken seriously at all.
     
  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    What does that make the Titanic?
     
  12. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    The safety of a boat depends on the design and the builder. Once it's in the water it depends almost solely on the operator! You can have the safest boat in the world but if the operator is dumber than a bag of rocks, well.................

    I think you are mis-remembering the old saw about the interior volume of boats increasing by the cube of the increase in length. Or.. the increase in hull speed increasing as the length increases?
     
  13. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six Previous Member

    Unsinkable. So no need for all those lifeboats. Well, according to the designer. Untrained passengers had other opinions, particularly in third class.
     
  14. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Once again another uneducated reply from Jammer. The designer, nor anyone at White Star made these comments and these myths only came to be after she sank, not before. Now there was some media effort by White Star that promoted both Olympic and Titanic as the safest practical and ever built. There where advertisements suggesting they were practically unsinkable, but this was common in the era and other ocean liners such as Kaiser Wilhelm and Lusitania also had similar advertisement. As to the life boat count, she was in compliance with the regulations of the era, which of course got changed afterward. If you have any interested in the history of the era, the "run" they where making had become quite common place, so much so it was considered a milk run and many years had past since a major sinking of a ocean liner.

    Engineering of these large liners, was considered the most high tech machines of the day and indeed Titanic was quite evolutionary, with her double bottom which had over 7' of clearance between inner and outer hull shells. No ocean liner, before or since has ever had the type of berg impact damage Titanic experienced. It wasn't conceivable at the time and since it's never happened before or since, pretty hard to engineer a work around. Ships have hit ice bergs, but none has ever glanced off one tearing a 300' long gash in it hull, so how do you engineer around an issue that's never occurred. In fact, Titanic had several innovative design features, most that linger in the industry today, so before you (Jammer) run your mouth about something you clearly don't understand, maybe you should just log onto i'mabutthead.com instead.
     

  15. boatenthusiast
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    boatenthusiast Junior Member

    here is a great video i found that goes into the conspiracy side of the titanic sinking, some believe there was a fire and thats what allowed the hull to tear so badly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRvMPc1KuJQ
     
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