A current Book about Golden Globe Race Generation Boats

[Freelics]

Hello,

after 10 years of IF-Sailing I am stuck in love with the Boats of the GGR.
I am not a math-pro and still would like to learn more about the pros and cons of the different designs of this era from a current perspective. Most of the layman-readable books are way too superficial for what I am interested in, for ex: Why the rustler and not the OE 32 with alsmost the same length of waterline? But when it comes to complicated formulas, my scope is ending...

Any recommendations?

 

[skaraborgcraft]

These were run of the mill boats of the time, there wont be any specific literature about them apart from sales brochures. Comparisons could probably be done on sail guide.
What they have in common mostly is long keels, high ballast ratios and high wetted surface compared to production boats of today.

 

[CarlosK2]

As Skaraborgcraft rightly says, it's very difficult to find anything more than brochures.

The difference (Rustler 36 vs OE 32) maybe lies in the bias due to the sailors and the number of data points, that is, the number of yachts that have participated.

And also, why compare based on the speed of slow yachts? Why not compare (if possible) good and bad behavior?

The OE 32 is a good yacht that can be found at a good price, that's the main point; the rest, from my point of view, is a minor detail.

Judged from a classical perspective, we assess:

A) Whether the bow is very sharp: whether it's like a knife (modern) or more like a spoon (classic)

B) Whether the Keel approximates a Delta Wing shape: zero forefoot ("forefoot cut away") and maximum draft right at the stern, at the rudder. The Delta Wing Keel shifts the center of lateral force of the water aft when the yacht yaws

"the Boats of the GGR" ...

Judged strictly from a Classical point of view ... are old-fashioned modern yachts

But the OE32 seems to me to approach the Classic ideal

And

C) The Center of Buoyancy must be located at the Center of Flotation or aft of the Center of Flotation

Summary of the hydroDynamic Problem of small yachts at sea https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/summary-of-the-hydrodynamic-problem-of-small-yachts-at-sea.70874/

In that major rescue operation, the Portuguese Air Force called an OE32 offering assistance, and the following was heard from the OE32:

- We thank the Portuguese Air Force for their efforts; we will continue on our course

(1) Traditional: horizontal long Keel, Deep forefoot
(2) Classic: Delta Wing Keel
(3) Modern
(4) Crazy Modern: modern keel located at the bow
(5) Ultra-Classic

(Haha)

 

[gonzo]

Carlos hijacks another thread with his nonsense.

 

[skaraborgcraft]

Are you a moderator Gonzo?
I would rather see content posted, than repetitive snipes at other posters over different threads. It adds nothing but animosity.
If you want to make it personal, join the Woodenboat Forum and have at it, they thrive on that sort of content.

 

[gonzo]

Fair enough. Racing designs are limited to an approved list. The boats are what used to be called cruiser/racers. They have a moderate displacement and sail area. I consider them the type that are usually referred to a seakindly. There is a restriction for navigation, so the highest expense would be a sextant. It also restricts the material of sails, rigging, etc. to what was available in the 60s. Overall it seems like a race that is relatively affordable to a regular person. There are many of these older boats available for moderate prices. Are you considering entering the race? Sounds like fun.

 

[Freelics]

Thanks a lot to you all - maybe a few acclarations first: No, I am not interested in heading for the GGR, but from my limited scope of understanding (by praxis alone...) I am totally with the point of Carlos that my desire is about as beautiful and least exhaustive journeys as possible. I am not into competitions at all and in no way. Still there simply might be bad compromises of possible speed vs. safety and comfort and also space usage.
I compared a lot on sailboat-data already (much of the data is simply wrong, due to lack of original sources, obviously, yes). But talking to a Boat-builder (in German not a designer but the person actually doing the job) there seems to be little about the actual functionality of the rather obvious design differences, like canoe vs. transom stern or, as I intuitively have already grasped and Carlos elaborated, the differenze between lateral plans. I mean thats why yachts are yawing at anchor in the wind and gets straight with a series-drogue, right? So it means in the end, that long-keelers should not be too heavy and keel and rudder should be as far aft as possible? No book at all to explain different designs in detail for math-dummies?

 

[Freelics]

"the Boats of the GGR" ...

Judged strictly from a Classical point of view ... are old-fashioned modern yachts

But the OE32 seems to me to approach the Classic ideal

The Classiv or the modern with keel rather aft?

 

[gonzo]

You are looking at elements in isolation. There are many types of keels that have good and bad characteristics. Boat design has to be looked at holistically to understand it. I have sailed light built boats with fin keels that behaved beautifully in storms. Also, heavy, long keeled boats that were horrible and almost impossible to keep on track. I have never used drogues or sea anchors and have sailed through nine hurricanes and countless storms. If there is enough sea room, heaving to has a fairly comfortable motion. If there is no room, a heavy boat that can't point and go upwind will run aground.

 

[Freelics]

Hello Gonzo,
thank you for staying and please correct me in all points as I might not take something in consideration:

• A Rustler 36, Marieholm 33 oder OE 32 - basically big Folkboats - cannot heave to sufficiently in heavy weather? Please explain, I wasn't aware of that and always thought it would be simply not as good?

• A fin-keeler can have the same tracking steadyness and calm/controllable motions like a reduced longkeeler? Under certain ideal conditions? Yes, a balanced-spade rudder ist for shure less affort to handle.
• Is the type of rigging (if basically balanced and strong enough, what I thought toprigged yachts with forward lower shrouds would rather be than fractional rigging) relevant at all in a storm with storm sailing?
• Both (Reduced! long keel an finkeel) are not to be deemed to be able to outrun a breaker, right? But a rather small and shallow-going rudder rather strikes foamy chaos twisting a ship around a short finkeel with almost no resistance while a short and deep long-keel far astern runs by far a lower risk to topple over itself than a traditional long keel or fin keel and brings far more order to the chaos exactly with a huge lateral plan and transom rudder far astern?

So fas the viewpoint of two transoceanists, which still do not seem to have your storm experience indeed.
But in the end I will not be able to buy different boats for different storms and will have to make a decision...

 

[gonzo]

A well designed boat will fulfill several requirements. For example, track reasonably well. That is, not broach uncontrollably or require extreme effort to steer. Good hatches that won't break and allow the boat to flood in a storm are a must. Cockpit drains are usually undersized. They work well in rain at the dock, but will take too long to drain if they get filled by a wave or a knockdown. I have installed 4 inch PVC drains in smaller boats (25 feet) which saved me from sinking. A cockpit full of water can weigh 3 tons. As an aside, I sail alone a lot, and push boats to the limit. With crew I am a lot more conservative. It is like riding a motorcycle alone vs with a passenger. I am not sure what you mean that a fin keel are not able to outrun a breaker. If you mean surfing a wave, separate keel/rudder have much better control. The longer lever arm created by the separation of the centers of effort of the keel and rudder give more control. However, at the end of the IOR era, boats became extreme with excessively pinched ends. The tended to pitchpole and broach, sometimes having the rudder ventilate or come out of the water. You need to consider that race machines, being boats or F1 cars, are not designed for comfort or to be operated without constant attention by trained persons. I suggest you go sailing on different types of boats. There is no perfect boat or one that satisfies everyone.

 

[skaraborgcraft]

There is a restriction for navigation, so the highest expense would be a sextant. .

You should read the rules. Don forces people to buy 30k worth of electronic tracking and safety gear, but will be banned from the race if they ever use it.
A good money spinner while riding on the coat tails of others.

 

[skaraborgcraft]

So it means in the end, that long-keelers should not be too heavy and keel and rudder should be as far aft as possible?

Boats that you describe can be less liable to broach, but not always, a big enough wave travelling at speed and a boat that may not be perfectly set up to ride it can broach and/or be knocked down.
A Rustler 31 has one of those keel aft lines, compared to something like a Contessa 32 or even a Rival 32/34/36 that has a mid length keel with skeg hung rudders. The latter have less wetted surface in comparison, but i would be happy offshore in any of them, and given appropriate sails, all could go upwind in a F9.

 

[gonzo]

You should read the rules. Don forces people to buy 30k worth of electronic tracking and safety gear, but will be banned from the race if they ever use it.
A good money spinner while riding on the coat tails of others.

I read the rules. 30K is a moderate sum for a round the world race. Most fishermen I know have that much in electronics.

 

[skaraborgcraft]

I read the rules. 30K is a moderate sum for a round the world race. Most fishermen I know have that much in electronics.

Sure, but they use what they pay for. Using the mandatory equipment you have to have onboard will get you booted from the race.
That 30k will pay for a RTW trip in itself, so you need twice the funding. Each to their own.