90 x 90 Race Multi

Seaworthyness with world record in sight?

Guess the only maxi cat that proved to be somewhat seaworthy is Gitana 13.
Although I remembered to have seen a message on the web that it damaged one beam between the riggers. Orange 2 was successful as well.

If the owners don't mind to take these enormous risk I guess they are willing to find a designer, a wharf and a crew to make a campaign like that possible.

I don't know.. from a gut feeling these maxi cats just doesn't seem right to me. But that is personal. From a commercial point of view for the designers it's about the same a a Ferrari. You know it's very dangerous in the wrong hands, but the money involved is huge.

The BMWO tri looks indeed like a light version of Groupama 3. And they expect this tri will survive in 7 metres waves and 30 + knots of wind?
But you said it already stating: 'It is the first ever boat of this size designed and built for in-port racing and match racing only'

What I doubt is that the operational crew will take the original design criteria , like you stated, seriously. On the other hand it's one of the most revolutionary tri's that the world has ever seen so far. But when Gammas says: We haven't gone full on yet. We need to build up our confidence and then we will be able to sail more aggressively. The boat is designed for light winds. She reaches the (103-foot) Groupama's top speeds easily, however much quicker than G3.

There lies to much ambiguous ambition in what he says. I hope for him he will be able to make it without damage to the DoG Fight in March 2009

Especially when they are tempted to world records like in the following article:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080913/SPORTS18/809130302/1066/SPORTS18

 

As a designer/engineer you should be able to see that the BOR90 will be the safest boat of the large multi-hull type ever built. They are not guessing about anything. They are treating the the boat as the highly experimental craft that it is. Once they are satisfied, that the computer models are a good reflection of the actual performance and loading that they are *measuring*. They will know if the boat is capable of breaking records.

I very much doubt that they will let the boys go out and try for a record if it will push the structure past it's known limits. AFAIK, no sailboat has ever had this sort of budget for design and testing. If experimental boats had been developed like this in the past, we would not have seen W60 hulls delaminating, we would not see carbon rigs failing semi regularly, we would not have seen canting keels on VO70s trying to kill the crews, we would not have a thread about keels falling of all sorts of boats.

I find it bizzare that everyone and their brother seems to think they can download Freeship and design a sailboat. These same people would probably not even consider designing and building an aeroplane. I can assure you that sailing yacht design and construction is much more challenging than aircraft design and construction.

The problem is that just about all of the big dream / little knowledge boats that amateurs design and build will float ... and sail after a fashion. If they had been aeroplanes they would never get off the ground.

You need to stop confusing a project with a $100 million design budget, with the big multi's that have been built in a garage on a shoestring by comparison.

 

I suppose the owners of F1 Teams seem to find designers, drivers, and teams to take a larger risk than this sailing team.

After all, this is a racing craft, like an F1 car, and not like a road going Ferrari. It is a professional business sailing these types of craft.

What is it in your "gut" that is "wrong"? Does your "gut" also tell you that flying is "wrong"? Is driving your family in traffic at more than 50 mph "wrong"?

Why on earth would you think this design would have to sail in 7 metre waves and 30+ mph winds? That's not what is is intended for. ACup races are not run in those conditions.

Why on earth would you state that the crew would not likely stay within the design criteria? Why would you look at team statements and say "there lies much ambiguous ambition" in the text? Do you also hear voices in your head?

The article you attached has no mention of anyone being tempted to any world record.
More voices in your head?

 

a process called thinking

I am not hired as a safety engineer nor as your psychiatist.

point number 1: The velocity of the supercats are pushing the limit towards what is unsafe.

Point number 2: What you refer to as voices in your head might be called a process called thinking. Ever thought about that...

Very clever what you answered... Duh

 

My bicycle often operates at speeds in excess of the top speed of these maxi multihulls. So by your thinking bicycles need to be outlawed.

Of course a Ducati will operate at 2.5x the top speed of these sailing craft. Yes, let's outlaw them as well.


Maybe we all should move to the Pennsylvania Amish country and ride about in a buggy, to ensure our safety.

 

You have obviously never come up on an Amish Buggy while riding a motorcyle at speed.

I can assure you, moving pylons with minds of their own are not safe!

Slow is only safe if there is nothing moving faster.

Besides, we all know that any single track vehicle that will fall over without help from the operator is unsafe and should be banned ... that would include bicycles, motorcycles, and foilers ... LOL!

 

You missed the bit of having us ALL ride buggies. That way no one is moving faster and spooking the herd.

Not sure how well this would work. My grandfather was the coal man, had a coal cart pulled by a clydesdale, often out in freezing conditions. Then he found out he could be on the dole, down the pub all day, for the same income.

So, based on my family's experience, to be safe we all need to be on the dole, down the pub all day.

Will someone please inform the boys at BMW-O about this?

 

Oh great ... we're going to ALL have buggies with government approved gallop limiters. Just the thing!

Dole? Didn't he run for President?

 

I am applying for a patent on a mechanical governor that can easily be applied to buggy wheels. If it it designed correctly it will work, like a foiler.

No, he's the guy in the little blue pill ads.

 

The Hindenburg and the Titanic

This will take a while but I am sure I will win this.

Imagine: Being catapulted with 50 knots while the tri makes a nosedive and you travel on with 50 knots and you hit the forestay that is standing still and you hit it with your back. don't you think you will miss half your body. If taken by the neck you're as dead as can be and within a second.

Try to hit a barbed wire fence with your bike at 50 knots perhaps then you might imagine what will happen. In that case you are lucky because most barbed wires will snap. I am pretty sure none of the stays on board when hit with a full body slam you will survive?

Give that scenario to the BMWO oracle crew like Couts and Spithill. Bet they are quite happy to go to the bathtubs again. They know the risk and have 1 thing as a priority: To keep the tri free from going under.

And then of course: comparison with motorcycle racing. Have you ever heard of a motorcycle race at the Isle of man. No pebbles bunkers. Just trees and stone walls around the race court. Deads each year: more than one. Do professional motorcyclist race here or is it a official qualifier.. No and that has a reason.

There is a film dumb asses or so called where a young man hits himself with a glass bottle so hard until he smashes his own brain in. Dead.. Prohibit glass bottles? Of course not, Design of bottles in such a way it can not harm anyone deadly? Perhaps.

Intelligent design in industry is done with a hazardous Operation study, in which scenarios that might be a problem for the operators are being minimized by mostly technical solutions. Perhaps I missed something but I don’t see a technical solution for saving the crew when being catapulted into the stays. An ejectionseat of a jetfighter perhaps but I don’t see that on the ultralight BMWO tri lightest version ever of a tri.

I strongly oppose a designer who doesn’t have an obligation of good conduct and safety when it comes to what he designs. Pretty sure you liked the original version of the Hindenburg as well. Or the course and speed of the Titanic in Northern Atlantic.

Well it is not as dramatic as that but neither is condemning a Hazop (hazardous Operation study) as going to the Amish.

 

schakel, you are an idiot. this boat is a hugh step forward, luggihts like you should stay in your tents and let the rest of us wonder at what engerineering has produced.

 

Do you want to bet it doesn't even make it to march 2009?

Do you want to bet it doesn't even make it to march 2009? I agree that the banana foils that provide uplift so the leeward hull is somewhat prevented to go under is brilliant. But Groupama 3 had the same devices and their leeward hull was ripped of.. And that was the heavier version of the BMWO tri

http://www.bymnews.com/photos/thumbnails.php?album=270

 

Test engineering motto:-
" Push it to the limit. and if it doesn't break---- it's too heavy".

 

What is there to "win"? You are obviously a nutter.

From your comments it seems obvious that you don't actually sail...

 

For all my life

I sailed for all my life. But not for now. My sailing resume is in my personal description.

What about you Paul B. What have you sailed and what do you sail and what do and what did you design?