80 foot cargo harryproa

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by lucdekeyser, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. lucdekeyser
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    [​IMG]
    This cargo Harryproa is meant for shipping goods and people in the Pacific requiring low maintenance while remaining relatively low tech.

    The original brief as on the website
    The actual building is being documented on facebook

    Lots of experimentation going on to improve ease of built, light construction, most bang for the buck...
     
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  2. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    It looks wonderful - but will it be viable financially?

    They mention that the payload is 10 tonnes of cargo, and 25 passengers - realistically, how much can they expect to earn on a typical voyage when carrying this amount of cargo and passengers?
    And what would the typical cost of overheads be (re maintenance, crew wages, depreciation etc?
    And perhaps most important, what would be the initial capital cost of building one of these 80' proas?
    Has a study been carried out to determine how long it would take to pay back the cost of a vessel?
     
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  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    The amount of solar panels indicate it is not low tech. Cargo sailing ships have already been developed and refined. This may appeal to green minded passengers willing to pay a high price for a ticket though.
     
  4. lucdekeyser
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    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    The build should be more considered as a prototype for testing ways to lower specific and overall costs. The results will then generate more reliable numbers to calculate return on investment that determine the scope of application.

    The boat is meant to add a viable alternative to the mix of transportation already available from the outboard powered skiffs for short distances and large diesel powered ships for longer trips.

    The term low tech is used more to indicate low sophistication in putting and keeping a boat together than to classify the underlying technology. Solar panels are already applicable in societies living simple "low tech" lives.

    In this sense, this build is an exercise in minimal architecture, the ease of molding, assembly and strengthening with strut constructions (to replace the rather expensive core) etc... with engineering advice and students' help from the local university.
     
  5. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Once we were approached by the Client who wanted to transport Coke in cans to remote islands, by 80' rotor-powered trimaran... :D
    This is similar idea, without economics behind, and without safety in mind. I am sure people of Pacific will have different opinion about it.
     
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  6. lucdekeyser
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    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    As the FB pages illustrate, Denney has been demonstrating the build of simple proa's in the Marshall Islands and has had requests from other organisations active in the south Pacific. This cargo proa must be seen as the proposal to some of these briefs. The viability of the corresponding business plans is not in scope of this thread as I can only point to the published brief for this particular Harryproa design.

    What can be assessed is if this design and build would be feasible and cost effective for fitting this rather special combination of requirements.
     
  7. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    If I recall correctly, there is already a thread here on this subject.
    Although, the Moderator may have terminated it for poor behaviour.
    The designer has been known to get rather defensive of his work.
    (I'm trying to be diplomatic.)
     
  8. lucdekeyser
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    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    BleuBell, I found only one reference to this specific design in another thread, coming from a distinguished senior member of this forum and with an approving nod.

    Now that it is being built and that new techniques are experimented with and documented almost in real time, a dedicated thread seems appropriate for those interested, preferring to use this forum for discussion instead of FB. Those who want to avoid FB completely can consult with some lag the building blog directly.
     
  9. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Design of commercial vessel usually starts from economic analysis.
    With this proa, this is another story and it seems to be 'lets try' approach.

    However, one should have in mind that besides economics there are regulatory issues affecting commenrcial vessels. As far as we know from posts on this forum, no harryproa has ever been built to any certification. The 80' vessel with 25 passengers likely tobe covered by SOLAS (especially if it is making international voyages). Did the designers go through SOLAS and checked it?
     
  10. lucdekeyser
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    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    Fair enough, Alik. I know only of a couple of 60' meant for leisure diving operations. The brief is all I know about. It must have been in preparation for one or other RFP's. Current construction is for a prototype demonstrating new techniques to lower the sophistication and cost of building a utilitarian boat. The non-cargo oriented design is the Orbiter 80, worked out for different use cases like live aboard, exploration class and traveling clinic.
     
  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    It would be cost effective if you find wealthy people to pay for its high cost of operation. I am confused though. Fist you say that the viability is not in the scope of this thread and follow with a question of whether is would be feasible and cost effective. What answers are you looking for? Claims of "low tech" have to be proven by actual "low tech". Otherwise, it is simply sales hype which will get shown to not reflect the reality of the design.
     
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  12. Gringles
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    Gringles Junior Member

  13. lucdekeyser
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    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    You are right, Gonzo, the message as written is confusing. What I meant to say that the build would assess that it is technically feasible while remaining low cost (and cost is of course relative to a frame of reference provided in the context of the brief which does not point to sufficient numbers that would feed a convincing business plan). It is definitely the goal to keep the cost of operation low, again in comparison with local "competing" alternatives. Such operations may also be supported by ngo's with projects to develop island communities and the like. But these schemes, although interesting in their own right, are not the topic of this thread.

    I would like to concentrate instead on discussing the techniques experimented with, like the truss based beams, the minimal need for specific molds, the avoidance of foam core, ...
     
  14. Gringles
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    Gringles Junior Member

    The blog already calls the unfinished cargo ferry a success, which means the designer's criteria for success has little to do with the boat's actual performance or completion.
     

  15. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    In Third World countries labor is cheap and available. Using local materials and primitive techniques is the most economic design. Forget about trusses and carbon fiber.
     
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