50ft Fast Cruiser

Daiquiri, I tend to agree a lot with your opinions, I respect. On this occasion I also agree with some of what you say, BUT:
Sometimes people shows us what he has done, which is much like a boat, but it is not at all a boat because many aspects that defines a thing as a "boat", have not been taken into account . So I try to investigate what the PO is proposing. If the question is, how do you like my drawing?, I express my opinion as if looking at a picture. If the question is (as I understand it is at this moment), what do you think about my boat?, I discuss about those aspects of boats I know best.
Regarding the work of Fil49er: very nice. The Italians, in design, are unbeatable (imo).
Cheers

 

Thank u for you critics, really. I need it to improve it and next works. When u design u tend to forgot problems, also simple problems.
I will work for render with people..

 

Perhaps add more freeboard to the hull. When you raise the cabin sole You create more floor space , deeper bilges and more deck space. Every cm counts on a small boat

All modern boats have high freeboards

 

Yes, they have unfortunately.
I like low freeboard. It's a sort of my tribute to gaff class.
I will try to rise floor and deckhouse.. with the surface finiture I choose It will look smaller than it is.

 

I did not want to be more involved in this discussion but, and although I am NOT an expert on sailing ships, I think the freeboard can not be a matter of fashion. Depending on the maximum heeling the boat need to experiment, we must put sufficient freeboard so that the deck does not get in the water. What do you think?
(Don´t forget : more depth = more weight)

 

try to have a look if u want at my work book. From page 11 to page 20 there is my market research and my layout.. at page 17 you will find my freeboard height. If u zoom in you can find freeboard height of every model.. it is a quite good research.. ;-)

let me think what u think

 

I can not comment on the freeboard because I do not know what navigation conditions you designed your boat. To me, at first, it seems a great freeboard. All I'm saying, I repeat, is that the freeboard is not a matter of fashion but a dimensión that, like all ship's dimensions, has a reason and therefore should not be changed without a reason very justified. If you decide, with the calculations you have done, that the freeboard is XXXX mm, no one has reason to tell you to change it.

 

right, right!! It'a a boat for Mediterranean coast conditions. the owner I set asked for a boat to share with the family and friends. I decided to design a boat for at max 2 weeks cruise and some regattas.. It's displacement is 13.4 ton

 

I respect a lots your opinions too, believe me. Even when we disagree.

Here we have a work of a young designer who has entered the world of boat design driven by an evident passion. His works, which we are seeing here are more than promising. I disagree when you say that what is shown is not a boat. I see more seaworthiness in his designs than what is visible, for example, in Wally Power. Yet, Wally Power has become a paradigm of modern yacht design, showing up in countless magazines and books about yacht design and visual arts in general. I have taken the Wally Power as an example, but I could put several other famous names could be put into the list.

Evidently, the pleasure yacht design is a field which goes beyond (or below, if you prefer) the pure naval architecture. It teases the eyes and the stomach more than the brain. The styling, the looks counts a lots, whether a graduated and knowledgeable Naval Architect might like it or not.

I read on Filippo's site that he has attended and completed the Master in Yacht Design at Politecnico di Milano (Milan, Italy). Therefore, he has been given the tools for evaluating the stability and feasibility of his designs. The technical booklet of this yacht shows that he has done the task of market research very well, making his choices by looking at what already exists on the market and how were the single technical matters resolved by the others. Hence, his design is standing on solid legs.

It can be improved, that's for sure, like any other design can. Whenever you pull the blanket, you will inevitably leave something exposed, because the blanket will always be too short to cover everything. I would also have made some design choices different from what Filippo did, but I reckon that we are all smarter in hindsight than we are in foresight.

The graphical presentation of his work is excellent, and though some here might consider it as too "graphical" and too little "technical", I contend that it is precisely how modern designs are presented to boatyards and customers. I have been in the technical and design departments of several industrial-size boatyards, some very famous brand names too, and I have seen many similar booklets done for the presentation of their models too. That's how it arrives to the yard (plus, of course, a number of other drawings with technical and constructive details and calculations), the technical offices would then think about manufacturing particulars and engineering details. It is not a sign of the lack of competences by the designer, it is the manufacturers who often want it that way. They all have secrets which they don't want to let go out of the house, so they prefer to have an in-house engineering dept. and to fine-tune the designs on their own.

Cheers

 

Daiquiri, I think I misspoke. At the beginning of my speech I asked if Filippo had taken into account one aspect related to the stability of the boat. When he replied that he had, I no longer I have to say (I believe what he says, I do not need to check on his website).
What I'm saying is that, I do not mean the work of Filippo, many people ask us what we think about their boat when nobody knows if it's a boat or just a pretty picture.
Filippo's boat is very nice and if, as he says, has studied her seaworthiness and is correct, I have nothing to say and, therefore, I say nothing.
Cheers.

 

Guys thank you about your critics, really. I'm very happy about that.
My master course is a MYD (Master in Yacht Design) but I'm trying to study in deep what about naval architecture and CFD. I did studies on my hull but of course it could be studied more in deep and I will do. Next step is to fill these .excel!

Those are my professor's (the great Fabio Fossati) tables.
I hope u can understand Italian

Thank u Daiquiri ;-)

 

Details make the boat.

Downwind sails are difficult to store and launch
20 years ago we attacked this problem by designing two hatches into the fordeck
The port side is general storage. The stb side has a special fabric bag and holds the downwind sail.

The concept has stood the test of time.

I can launch the sail with a halyard directly from the locker and store the sail single handed. As a result this sail gets used frequently and greatly improved the experience onboard.

Sail storage and handling is an important detail


The third hatch hpuses the below deck anchor winch. The foredeck is clean and user friendly and the chain weight is as far aft asossible

 

The dingy, tender, is a very important tool. You may be launching and retrieving several times per day.

It must be effortless, and the tender must be maximum size for space available

To maximize the size of this transom lazerette stored dingy and still be able to keep its outboard mounted we cut and hinged the transom. The resulting tender footprint is now the same as tender without motor.

The system works so well that I wonder why over the past twenty year designers have not used it .

 

Folded ready for stern storage

 

Very nice boat, Fil49er. Can you elaborate on your choice of headstays and headsail gear? The separate stay and furler would seem to be a disadvantage for a racer. If I were doing this, I think I'd want the stay further away from the inner furler. I think wake of the stay is going to merge with the sail's boundary layer. Talk to racers about this though. I think the lack of a mainsheet traveler would be a nogo for many racers. And you seem to be overcanvassed. Over canvassing is a very expensive way to not go any faster.

The dingy storage does look a bit cramped. If the boat is intended for a wider appeal than the regatta-biased client, could arrangements be adjusted for more storage. Maybe the cruiser version just has a different cockpit arrangement with single steering, a higher floor, and different traveler. (like Michael, I would hate to cruise with that mainsheet arrangement. I consider it a racer's only set-up. As Daiquiri mentioned, a person in the picture somewhere can help. One image showing the crew on their stations during a regatta would seem appropriate considering the client, even if you left all the hardware to our imagination.

As you've doubtless discovered, this forum tends to be heavy on the mechanical aspects of the craft, which isn't what you want to emphasize in your presentation. Members also tend to be fond of older stuff, as well. I happen to like Swans and other S & S lead-mines, so a 50' LOA cruiser with a D/L around 130 to me means it is about 7 feet too long on the waterline.

If you've ever tried to sail a boat and run herd on several guests, you know why Michael pokes along at half power at 5 knots or so. You want that boat of yours to be plenty happy doing that for two weeks. There is room for ac's in there just in case, right? Maybe 6 more little Adco units under the floor in addition to whatever the galley has?

Have you prepared, in a engineering way, but not for presentation, basic overlays for power distribution and plumbing and located panels, switches, lights, pumps, and the like? genset? bow thruster? Can a conventional shaft drive be accommodated? A tabulated list of onboard equipment recommendations would be appropriate to post here for comments.

Minor gripes -

1. English translation of brochure?

2. I don't like recessed lighting on a 50'er. Some things shouldn't be scaled down from larger craft because most of what's retained is fussiness. I think the valances take up too much volume and cut the interior up into little pieces during the daylight. I'd want lighting fixtures unless you already have a valance hiding a chaseway or row of bolts or something. You can argue it is keeping with the low energy profile of the vessel. I think most vessels this size tend to tuck light fixtures into the corners. It depends on how functional you need the volume to be. It would be a good sort of challenge to integrate fixtures properly to give the effect you want.

3. I thought the Hal Sisk quote on the inside cover was an odd choice. Something a little more inviting is in order. I found the Sisk quote a rather combative introduction.