- - 44 ft Sailing Yacht - - Completely Build of 316 L Stainless Steel - - ? ? ? ? - -

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by Angélique, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    -​
    Just came across an yacht ad that says it's completely build of 316 L stainless steel, what do you think about that . . ? ?



    * Currently located ± guess in southwestern Portugal at the mouth of the Arade River, in Portimão harbour, in the Barlavento Algarvio, the western Algarve, in the district of Faro.​

    Below some pics, text and more pics can be found at the links, the pics that show bare stainless steel (?) are at the bottom of the quote, but most is painted.
    -
     
  2. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    - - - Some info about the Designer - - - Some info about the Builder . . ? ? ? - - -

    -​
    - The ads say the yacht is designed by the Dutch Yacht Designer Frans Maas (born in 1937), couldn't find his website, if he has one.

    - Dutch Wikipedia: Frans Maas (yacht designer) ---> Google Translation*

    * Note: the Dutch Wikipedia title says ‘‘jachtontwerper’’ which is ‘‘yacht designer’’ in English, and not ‘‘game designer’’ as the automatic Google translation tries to tell me . . :rolleyes:

    - Here's a Dutch boating magazine with an article about Frans Maas' design career: Waterkampioen 16 - 1995 - Page: 28 to 35 PDF = in Dutch

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    - Both ads (ad 1) (ad 2) say the above yacht was built in 2004 by the Dutch boatyard ‘‘Inoxy Constructions’’

    - Couldn't find any info on the Dutch boatyard ‘‘Inoxy Constructions’’ neither in English nor in Dutch.
    -
     
  3. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    - - - Some - Questions - - -

    -​
    - What are the benefits of all stainless steel boat construction, and what are the disadvantages, relative to ordinary construction steel . . ? ?

    - For boat building in all stainless steel, is 316 L then the correct material, or are there better types of stainless steel for this kind of application . . ? ?

    - Picture #8, of the boat under construction, the hull there, does that look like stainless steel . . ? ?

    - What about intergranular corrosion regarding stainless steel prolonged exposure to salt sea water . . ? ?
    -
     
  4. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    some scarey pics

    This was at about 4 weeks immersed.. The vendor claimed microbial influenced corrosion, might have been some stray dc from a solar panel but advanced at a fast rate, in this application is not going to sink a boat, the welding process/application seemed to be a variable around the pipe joint also.
    I've applied decks & locker bottoms in stainless, also considered fitting a transom in it once but I think steel might generally be more reliable for being submerged.

    J.
     

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  5. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

  6. mydauphin
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    If you paint or otherwise cover SS it will corrode. It needs exposure to oxygen. When SS corrodes it does by going brittle, not a good thing.
     
  7. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    That have been done by Marcel Bardiaux with his yacht INOX built in 1966. 15m 22 tons, even the masts are in stainless steel. The trials were a nightmare as the boat showed problems of acute electrolytic corrosion. Bardiaux had to remake all the pieces of hardware, even the screws in the SS alloy of the hull. I do not know the name of the SS alloy and there are so many SS alloys...
    The construction is very heavy, the plates are until 15 mm thick. The boat survived many miseries, and it seems that it is always sailed by its new owner (Bardiaux died in 2000). The boat has always been painted...
    Wiki in french
    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Bardiaux

    The yacht Inox is for sale. Many pics.
    http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1966/bardiaux-INOX-2367031/France
    http://www.boats-diffusion.com/ec35754/inox.html

    The SS 316 L (for low carbon) and better SS 316 L Mo (molybden) are extremely resistant to salt water corrosion when they have oxygen. They are in the austenitic SS and are very ductile with lots of hardening when worked. Very easy to weld even with a simple stick welder, horrible to machine. Some serious problems of corrosion in the absence of oxygen. Pretty expensive.

    In 1984 2 simple hard chine 40 feet SS 316 L Mo sail yachts were made near Paris. I spoke with the builder and warned him about the electrolytic corrosion risk. The boats were launched in 1985 and in 1987 they needed a major refit. Some welds showed problems. All the SS screws were in the way to be destroyed. The SS cables of the rig, and hardware were very sick, and the base of the aluminium mast put simply in a SS shoe was badly corroded.
    That has been a very costly affair for the builder. After many insulating machined pieces, tons of silicones and bisulfite, replacement of hundreds of small items, and meters of welds remade with the good filler, the things were corrected.

    So that seems to work, after all the due precautions. At least INOX showed to be durable, as it's a 61 years old boat. Probably it has been expertized and declared fit before being offered for sale.
    Not my choice of material. There are other materials less problematic, easier to work, lighter at better prices.

    In metal aluminum can last, is light and very weldable when using the good tecnique. The Pen Duick V made in 1969, the precursor of the IMOCA boats sails. Pen Duick III 1967 and Penduick V 1971 are well and sailing.
    GRP can last, I know 45 years boats in good shape. We made at Cherbourg in 1984 a 150 feet mine hunter in sandwich GRP, a bit flexible but always working. Plenty of 20 to 30 years old boats in good shape.
    The Pen Duick made 1964 in painted plywood sails. I made between 1990 and 1993 five 40 feet fast (22 to 24 knots) pro fishing boats for sea bass and two 40 feet yachts (26 knots) based on the same monohedron design derived from a patrol boat. Marine Russian pine and birch plywood, first rate glass UD, biaxial, triaxial and clothes by Brochier, fabulous specially formulated epoxy. Composite joints at the chines. All are in very good shape, ready for 20 years more of work.
    The secrets are good quality construction and maintenance. That seems so obvious.
     
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  8. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Thanks Ilan, very informative post [​IMG]
     
  9. Nick.K
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    Nick.K Senior Member

    25 years ago I worked for a Belgian boat owner who had two boats that were serviced by Frans Maas's yard in Breskens (Standfast?), I spent a summer sailing out of the adjacent marina. The yard and design office was a welcoming place where you could walk in and look around. The standard of work was high and they seemed busy though I don't remember any metal hulls those I saw were GRP.
     
  10. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

  11. Ilan Voyager
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    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    Mr Tad, yes Maas was more a builder than a NA. Van de Stadt was more innovative and the office designed a plethora of very good boats. I love your passagemakers, under the apparent simplicity and elegance there is a lot of brain juice.

    Thanks for the catalog. Memories, that was the Nec Plus Ultra of the yachting, the subject of conversation at the bar of the Cercle de la Voile de Paris, the very chic CVP. Tabarly was the great innovator with Pen Duick III which exploited a hole in the rule about measuring the surface of the sails between the 2 masts of a schooner. What a good sail boat.
    By Jove, I do feel very old when I read it. The Tina by Dick Carter. 1966 under the RORC rule. That rule gave ultra heavy boats (the keel of Tina at 3175 kg weights more than a 40 feet fast cruising coastal catamaran we made in 1990 in strip plank...).
    The downwind characteristics with a balloon spinnaker of the RORC boats were terrifying. I was this time the young guy who climbed the mast to shred the nylon spinnaker tightly wrapped around the stay. no time to lose in race...

    Maas made around 40 Tinas between 1967 and 1969 most in GRP. The IOR rule made the boats outdated in 1970 ot 71. A lot have survived, these boats could take on the deck with no problem a tank Shermann with its armament.

    Carter made more interesting boats like Red Rooster in 1969, and Vendredi 13, an ultralight 39 meter in 1972 made in infusion GRP sandwich by Tecimar.
     

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  12. S Steel
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    S Steel Junior Member

    In my opinion a stainless-steel boat should be painted because it is a large construction with a lot of welds and then there is a concern of crevice corrosion. A standard mill finish of #4 will probably hold paint well enough. Or rough it up beyond #4 with stainless-steel wire brushes.

    There is mention here of a problem if stainless-steel loses exposure to oxygen. But really it only takes a few hours of exposure to oxygen to make the chrom-oxide surface layer. If the boat is chipped it has chrom-oxide but if the boat is not chipped then it has paint.

    Since the stainless-steel boat is being painted then use the less-expensive 304 L stainless-steel and expect that to cost about $1.75 a pound not including fabrication. Not-including-fabrication means that the 4mm plate is bought on a coil and is not yet flattened. Hopefully the plate can be cut to size and welded into position without actual flattening. Well, cut to rough size, flatten it, and cut it to final size and shape.

    4mm plate ? There is a Dix design in 43' that can use 4mm plate.

    Galvanic corrosion means that any metal touching the stainless-steel should also be stainless-steel.

    My test bed ? I have a Letter Locker stainless-steel mailbox with powder-coating on it.

    If the boat is not painted then it should be 316 L stainless-steel. But stainless-steel in a saltwater tide loses about 0.001" per year. Fresh water is no problem.

    304 L or 316 L but the "L" means that the stainless-steel can be welded.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  13. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Nope, you can weld any of them. Ilan Voyager gave you the answer:

    The low carbon content (L) prevents carbide precipitation., or weld decay as it is often termed.
     
  14. S Steel
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    S Steel Junior Member


  15. tood
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    tood New Member

    Yes, there is boats completely made of 316L. I guess the drawback is that it is quite expensive to build. The most positive is that you do not have to worry about hidden rust from inside. Here is one example of a 38 feet sailing boat (316L) made in 1997. There are (probably) more than 100 pcs of similar model made of steel. A couple was made of ss. 20151013_124641.jpg 20151203_110019.jpg 20151203_110047.jpg 8537725690.jpg
     
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