35' cat concept for the inside passage.

absolutely unbelievable

 

looks like it`ll fit ok with a 900mm waterline beam and at least 10" of clearance around the sides of it... we could perhaps go thinner hulls if you can tolerate less room to work on it? i think it would close enough to work with 900mm for now...

 

well here's the largest picture I could find, we know the height is ~33 inches so I'll scale off this as well and average our width estimates

maybe in the morning I'll get a hold of the state department and see about getting something over to the German gubment about declassifying the width of this engine. Unbelievable that almost two hours of searching would come up blank on even a hand measured width let alone the actual factory specs. Damn lets hope that isn't something to get used to when dealing with this engine.

 

Going with the wider of the two estimates of height, call it 29" I get 26~28" wide if I loose the air filter and not including the exhaust manifold, so its going to be tight

Deal is I was thinking since I wanted such thin hulls I'd have to make accommodations to conveniently lift the engines a bit for maintenance or replacement. So tight isn't as much of a concern as might be expected. I want to mount the engines on a frame that will slide upwards anyway, so ya 36" should work ok as long as that 36 is far enough forward for me to play with the for aft placement of the engine/s. 32 is better isn't it? assuming I can shoehorn the engine in that is, also assuming that once I actually get the dry weight of this engine located its within some reasonable parameters. So far I've found numbers ranging from 400 to 650.
244 to 348kg

Ridiculous that the specs on this motor are not readily available

 

i get 599mm to the widest part of the turbo compressor housing and assuming you throw away the air cleaner... Itll fit in 900mm waterline hulls no worries with almost 1ft of clearance all around the sides... Remodelled the 900mm waterline beam hulls and youll need just under 80hp shaft hp for 15.5kts @ 6.25 tonnes displacement including 8.8m^2 frontal area air resistance and assuming 70% propeller efficiency... 2 of these engines will really get you moving along quite fast if you wanted to... but 8kts is the most efficient speed, the wave resistances climb steeply above this speed, most notably is the transverse waves;


This is the free wave surface @ 10kts, the transverse waves are most significant at this speed, below 8kts its remarkably improved...

 

Sounds great a foot might as well be a mile. I'm about to head out for the evening but thanks for all the help. Maybe once I get some actually specs on this thing I can call it good on the engine/s. I don't think we can really plan on much or go much further unless I know the weight of the engine. Since its by far the heaviest thing in the boat, its placement is critical to determining all other interior considerations.

Gotta admit I had my *** kicked trying to locate simple specs on a common engine, for three hours. Who'd have guesses. Oh well have a great evening. I'm out for a while.

Cheers
B

I'll sketch up something new at my earliest that reflects these changes but your drawing looks pretty sharp. Thanks again
B

 

Its not a government conspiracy,they've been out of production for 25 years and not swapped into too many other cars...

BTW you should look at the Nissan marine sd33..very tough engines but not nearly as common as the OM617

 

Here you go Boston. -- > http://www.dmv-bootsdiesel.de/Englisher Index/Lieferprogramm/MercedesBenz/merc_typ.html#058

Lists not only the dimensions of the engine, but also the weight... seems these people are already marinizing them and have all the other maranizing bits youll need... bet they arent cheap tho

 

If you tell them or the manufacturer of the engine (another classified bit of info - especially which country), then you will bet NOTHING as they will be scared of litigation should something go wrong sometime in the future.... I tried and was told "We cannot help you as it is outside design and warranty constraints..." - or something to that effect - I was after the 75hp made for the small smart 2 + 2 or whatever they call it (That engine is used in quite a few ultralight aircraft and in that configuration would be near perfect for a catamaran as it was relatively light...) From memory it was used in the Ranphos trike - a delta wing kite plane with amphibious capability - land and take off on land and water... http://www.ramphos.com/e/03_s.html has a good shot of the engine...

 

deal ( didn't know you worked with them ) 570 it is then, seems like its a tad heavier than I'd want but its doable

 

aaaarrrrrrggggg now to go translate the European designations VS the US designations. Also the dimensions look like they include the marine transmission these guys seem to be tacking on.

I just want one straight out of a used car or direct out of a crate. I don't need to pay anyone to do stuff I can do myself. These engines used around here are always available for <1k and typically ~$500. Makes no sense at all to pay someone a fortune to do the work that I enjoy doing myself. If I want to spring for a factory rebuild I'll buy it from the factory through my buddies wholesale biz.

Transmission shmansission Multiple V belts with 2:1 reduction or something like that will work just fine. I don't need any yuppie labels on my boat. line of pulleys and a line of belts should do the trick although I've often wondered if Chains are more efficient.

Did I mention cost effective yet ?

anyway you guys are fantastic, lets see if this thing lets me throw you some points for all the effort.

aaaarrrrggg yah lubbers
that is so annoying

its the Sailor Jerry's, brings out the pirate in me every time

 

Yes masalai, i was looking at the smart engine whilst i was looking around at others... there are some very lightweight diesels getting around that would be great for catamarans, and its only going to get better in the future with all the little common rail turbo diesels going into nearly every small car thats sold these days... its only a matter of time before these are a dime and dozen... like the little 1.6L TD thats in the late model ford focus etc... puts out over 110hp and i think it might be an all aluminium engine... no idea on the weight, but it wouldnt be much thats for sure...

Bostons main consideration is cost, and thats fair enough... the OM617 is probably too much engine if you put one in each hull, you really dont need that much power and it would be nice if you could find a smaller (lighter) engine if you end up going for 1 engine per hull. If you go the 1 engine per 2 hulls, then the OM617 turbo definately sounds like a good engine for the job. I just found one here in oz for $950...

But boston, its not just the drive/gearbox you need to think about, its all the other stuff like heat exchangers, salt water pumps, exhaust manifold cooling etc... that link i posted previous, would be able to supply all that stuff if you cant find it cheaper in the US...

Ive been considering a pair of lightweight diesels for my cat instead of the outboards, can anyone tell me what the 120hp mercruiser cummins 1.7L TDI costs in the USA? I might just have to import a couple...

 

Well I've got a pencil and an eraser, not a chisel and a rock. So I could just keep looking and see if I could find something smaller. I can get those Kubota diesels all day long as well. But they are a bit more expensive and all come out of skid steers. Which beats the crap out of them and they are in the 2~3k range.

I was also thinking that if these power cats tend to squat anyway then I might add a couple feet to the hulls only and leave the cabin house the length it is. Might give it a nice look as well. I think the cut off length up in Ketchikan for the public moorings is 38' so as long as I'm under that it should be fine.

Hmmmmm there must be a small and very reliable and cheap diesel floating around somewhere.

Maybe what I need is a couple diesel lawnmowers ;-)

 

I've always been baffled as to why they don't sell more small diesel cars in this country. Would come in damn handy right about now.

although I could trip over one of these used if I wasn't careful

http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/engines.cfm?ID=44

or new for not much more.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Jvx2_nsurUbI2D27A&sig2=HBDK4Xzeb1MjNtziLXGiSg

I'm thinking of this one

http://www.kubotaengine.com/products/03m/d1803_m_e3.html

gotta go investigate it some and make sure its a reliable model but they are a dime a dozen used, its all of 20" wide and weighs 322lbs with 37 hp at 2700rpm intermittent so its probably good for 30hp continuous. Two seems like they might work just fine. At 20" wide I'd have tons of room. And run $4200 new

 

The fact is Americans won't buy small cars-much less so with a diesel.
It's quite different in Canada as the fuel is not subsidized,and is taxed on consumption which IMO is a fairer way. And it's a lot more so in Europe,hence the small cars with diesels.
In Europe I have a few cars, one is an Audi A2 3l,which at 75 kmh gets 2.5 litres per 100 km. So..ummm.. 48 mph gets about 95 mpg/US gallon.

"under certain circumstances, consumption for the 1.2 TDI model can be as low as just over 2 litres per 100 kilometres (140 mpg-imp; 120 mpg-US)"

Anyways the laws for importing cars are different,it's 15 years of age and any car can be imported..in the US it's 25 ..you'll notice many right hand drive SUVs and tiny weird kei class cars and vans around here.

I looked at some US based JDM importers and -like I thought due to epa issues-they have nothing/zero/zilch in the way of diesels.


Theres quite a few Japanese companies that specialize in exporting engines