30' cypress cabin cruiser

Iprimina,

We can have a very lenghty discussions on will or won't it work. If you read the previous posts you'll see people agreeing with me, but I'll admit that there have been cases that this "closing up the wood" did work, al lot depends on original design, age, moisture content, craftmenship, materials used etc. etc.
But, in general, giving a boat a "death cloth" is a bad idea.
However, appriciate you checking on the exact methode your friend used.
Wonder why he used epoxy (5200) and then changed to polyester, the later adds nothing?

Regards,


Peter

 

The idea of putting a permanently flexible adhesive like 5200 on anything and then coating it with a hard, rather less flexible material like polyester, seems to be inviting the hard material to break out of the bond with the flexible stuff. As the pieces move the 5200 does as well, what will the poly do? I can tell you it will not move near as much and the dissimilar rates of this will cause a bond failure between the poly and 5200.

Epoxy also will let in moisture, don't let anyone fool you with "magic" goo crap. It's a much better product then poly, but it too has it's place, even on an old well worked craft like this.

Many boats were intended to live on trailers, built to survive the "road dues" all trailered boats must endure. I have two boats of traditional construction in the yard now, though they have different methods of construction (lap strake and carvel) each was designed and intended to live on a trailer. The carvel planked boat has been wedged seamed above the LWL (a good idea) and is typically caulked below. This prevents her from spitting out the wedges with repeated wet/dry cycles and the caulk does what it's supposed to do. As this boat has gotten older since her last caulking she's taking more time to tighten up and she's in for some garboards and caulking. The seams have had a few too many rounds of caulk beat into her and are in rough shape, but I suspect she'll take on another wack job (if you've ever caulked traditional seams you'll know what I mean) after the seams are reefed out, dressed and the good string from Canadian get here. The owner knows bottom planks are in her near future.

The lapstrake boat was clenched, but nothing was used in the seams. This has been changed to a light weight caulk in a tube on the laps. In fact the manufacture started doing this the year after this boat was built, to address some leaking issues, customers had complained about. Both of these boats are at the very edge of trailerability, being that they are big, heavy and just barely legal (beam) to drag around on the highways.

The first thing you need to do is access the boat. Not you, but a person who will look for more then a "sense" of illness as you put it. If you have some rot, then you have a lot more then you can see. It's the nature of the beast, trust me. You can't see all the little places it hides with a good walk through. If it's determined to be a project to your liking, then get it home, but talk this over with the surveyor as it may need special bracing and protection, in order to maintain it's shape during transport. The last time I move a questionable boat like yours, I screwed plywood ripped into 8" wide strips all over the planking (knowing it was all coming off anyway) and installed "X" bracing inside. Don't do like a friend of mine did last year and put a questionable boat on a trailer without checking, very carefully the condition of the structure. He transported it on a poorly fitting trailer, 300 plus miles, arriving at my place with the port trailer bunk shoved up into the boat over a foot. The steam bent frames were wet, weak, cracked and full of fastener sickness. They couldn't take the repeated pounding the trailer ride gave and 28 of the 42 frames snapped in route as the bunk cleaved right through them with each and every bump in the road. Had some shoring, bracing and a better fitting trailer been used, he'd have saved several thousand bucks.

 

inspections

Very sound advice Par, and believe me I'll take it. I am sure a smarter man less sure of his abilities would hire a surveyer but I doubt I'll do that. But I and others will slither over every square inch of her before moving her. And if I still feel spunky get her reinforced as you suggest for the trip.

 

I thank you guys too any time time a person learns something new it isnt a wasted day, I will keep tabs on his boat to see how it goes. (his boat stays in the water all the time).

 

trailering classic boats

We are intrigued by your intent to trailer your 30' cypress boat. We are about to purchase a 30' mahogony cruiser and since we are new to the field, assumed trailering was only done by professionals. We are quite handy and will be able to take on any boating, mooring, transporting issues once we get a bit of experience. Buy would appreciate your (or anybody's) ideas about trailering boats of this category. Does the wood get beat up by the road travel, not so much because of pressure areas, but because of the inevitable shifting to all its joints? We would not trailer often, possibly once or twice a summer. Any thoughts would be welcome.
Carsti

 

Building trailers and using them is reasonably easy, but finding one or building one that works without damaging the boat is difficult. The first issue you should check is the weight of the boat (wet - full tanks, gear, etc. and water soaked hull) the second is the max beam (width) as both could wreck your hopes of pulling this behind your pickup.

If the weight and width are within the required maximums, then the trailer design can be addressed. Trailer design comes in two forms. The first and the one you'll see everywhere on the highway is intended to fit as many different boats as possible, with just a few adjustments to the roller and bunk locations. These trailers, generally, are bad on wooden hulls. No wooden hull should be dragged across rollers fitted to the planking (keel is okay) the other thing that makes these trailers bad is the location of the axle(s) being to far aft. They are designed for outboard and stern drive powered vessels where the weight is well aft in the boat, which is usually not the case in wooden, inboard power cruisers.

The fit of the trailer is critical if the boat is to have an easy time over the road. Generally I fit the boat so it's in a slightly bow down position when loaded on the trailer (makes launching and recovery easier) and insure the bunks are directly under the engine bearers (the two large chunks of wood running from transom to the forward end of the boat that the engine sits on) In most wooden hulls with single inboard installations the bearers are about 24" to 30" apart. Your hull the dimension should be in the 28" to 30" range (centerline to centerline) This means the hull will be resting on two bunks 28" or so apart, not much support for a hull that may be over 8' at the transom in width. You'll want another set of bunks outboard of these to support the turn of the bilge areas.

Now your hull would be held up by four bunks and some centerline (keel) rollers, but if you have a skeg (I suspect you do) then rollers can't be used easily, so make the bunks long enough to support the midship areas. The areas forward of the skeg should have as many rollers as you have space to fit. Do yourself a favor and use the yellow roller made of polyurethane as they'll last a bunch longer, don't split and are much kinder on the hull.

This is the basic configuration, but you'll want to install some "guides" at the back of the trailer at least. These are long pieces of PVC pipe usually, and they guide the bow through the back of the trailer as you load. They keep the bow from drifting into the bunks and dinging up the bottom planks in the forward areas of the hull. I make mine so they pinch the hull when in the full loaded position. Most hulls have a taper from midship aft, I use this to my advantage. The guides push the hull home into the bow stop ("V" shaped piece on the winch stand) because they are pinching the hull (set closer to the center line of the trailer then the hull is wide) This also keeps the boat snug and on the trailer as things get tidied up during loading. Nothing worse then getting you boat on the trailer and having it float out of alignment while you stow the cooler in the back of the car. The guides will help prevent this if set so they pinch the stern area of the hull. I also use guides on the bow, but only on boats intending to live on the trailer. The bow guides don't pinch, they just keep the bow centered on the trailer as she comes out of the water. This way the keel is on the rollers, not a bracket or something that can damage the hull.

Since you're not going to use the trailer much, good support should be your goal. Launching and recovery will be a planned event and boat hooks and some friends that understand what needs be done can substitute the guides. The only other issue I like to touch on is axle location. If modifying an existing trailer, it's rather likely the axle(s) will need moving forward. This is an art form that gets lost now a days, most trailers have too much or to little tongue weight. This is quite important for easy trailering. Striking a balance with the center of gravity in the boat and the axle(s) so there is the right amount of weight on the hitch is basically trial and error. It's a lot easier to have a travel lift handy to make these adjustments, but most of us have to launch the boat, make the changes, retrieve the boat and check the fit, then do it all over again. This will take up most of a Saturday afternoon, getting it right, but you'll notice as soon as you have to drag her any distance, the effort was worth it.

 

I am unsure as to which type of cypress that you are referring to. I live in Vancouver,B.C. Canada, where the cypress that grows here is also known as yellow cedar. It is a very decay resistant and relatively stable wood. It is,however not the most receptive wood to epoxy, and it is prone to checking when exposed to the sun. Generally we use cypress for rim timbers,stacked bulwarks and sawn structural members.I understand that there is a species called pond cypress that grows in the U.S. southwest.I have read that it is a relatively light weight wood that is resistant to decay. It is, however, prone to excessive shrinking during the drying process. Probably not an ideal medium to encase in epoxy. You haven't mentioned wether your boat is well constructed with close frame spacings. Obviously the more robust your boat, the better chance that you have of moving her about. Personally, I feel that carvel planked boats were designed and built to spend the majority of their time in the water. At 30', a carvel type hull would require a lot more shoring than a glass boat for example, when being hauled out. There is a real need to support the hull at the horn timber, bulkheads, and at any frames that support interior machinery or tanks. This also applies when you block her up for the refit. If the caulking has begun to fall out or is decayed, then I would suggest reefing out the old caulking, refastening, or resetting all fastenings, and performing a complete recaulk. These types of boats were not designed to be launched and hauled continually. you would just stress out the main structural members. And you are correct in assuming that this would not be conducive to keeping a watertight hull. If you want a trailerable boat, go for one built of glass, steel or aluminum.

 

JR,
The boat is of Bald Cypress, a relatively common species in South Louisiana. The boat may be one of the last boats built before WW2 by the man who built the PT boats in New Orleans, "Higgins" I think,but I'm drawing a blank right now. I agree she would be better served to stay in the water but that isn't possible right now. She is laying on her side in a friends barn and if I don't take her he will sink her again (to prevent decay) and maybe someone will salvage her later. If she is worth the trouble I'm sure i'll have to do all and more than you suggested here. I also feel that anything can be accomplished if you try hard enough. So we'll just have to see how it comes out.

 

It should be a lot of fun. I would try to get her off of her side though, and shored up a.s.a.p. in order to save yourself the hassle of bringing the hull back into shape later on. Good luck, it should be a lot of fun.

 

Cypress Cruiser resto

I have worked with cypress and have built some traditional pirogues. Am redecking my 44' Steel Hull sailboat with cypress at the moment. The cypress will long outlast the original teak it came with.
I dont understand why some cypress, after many years, gets hard as a brick and some does not. There are two things to consider on this. The current wisdom is that some cypress is not 'tidewater' grown. That is to say that some is grown in brackish water conditions and some is grown inland without the salt content. I still dont know which conditions cause which effect.
The tidewater is the only one which gives the long (known) life to cypress.
Here is my experience for what it is worth. Never coat nor paint large surfaces of a cypress boat unless you want to be sanding and recoating for the rest of your life.
My preference in finishing cypress is to use 3M 5200 in the seams. Several colors are available. I had to remove a portion of a V-hull I built from marine ply and the sealant absolutey tore the top layer of the plywood off because it would not turn loose!!!
It is expensive, but a lot cheaper and safer in the long run when compared to the possibility of leaks and refinishing.
MOST WORTHY OF NOTE!! I have a long time friend who fixed boats, under warranties, for major mfrs of fiberglass boats. He says there has never been a fibreglass boat built that didnt leak. I have seen him cut the transom completely off what appeared to be a perfect hull and watch it drain water from the foam for weeks! My McKee, in the water, got so heavy after four years, I had to replace the 35 hp with a 50 just to get on plane. I sold it!
One little glass piece, sticking out...hardly if even visable becomes a sieve.
If the big guys with all the kings horses and knowledge and MOLDS cant do it, its pretty unlikely it could be perfected in the field.
My finish on cypress topside is to apply two coats of grain sealer about a week apart. Its pretty flamable so dont be shootin no roman candles for at least a week after coating. (WATCO OIL IS THE BEST)
Then, as that oil soaks in, take a paint roller, couple times a year and apply BABY OIL. My pine floors in my house were also done this way and they are beautiful honey color because no chems are applied which will keep out uv.
Also there is not the first heel dent nor scratch on my pine after 15 years of use. (Baby oil at the Dollar Tree is $1.00 per bottle)
I watch the guys at the marinas sanding and scraping and recoating their brightwork about every two years, no matter if its resin, spar, urethane or whatever. I just keep on drinkin my beer and laff a lot.
Cheers!
Sam

 

babyoil...
a frend some years back had the same idea for my teak
it gets sticky and is harder to remove than apply

 

Sticky Teak

First you should clean the teak, if it is old..with Tomato juice..lol..seriously!!!
I have done it for years...dunno what you may have imbedded in the grain of the teak b4 you put the baby oil on...Its simply mineral oil and it will soak in and residue will evaporate, unless the teak has some other substance on it which can create some chemical compound with exposure to sun and/or water.
Sticky...lol...did you catch any flies on it?
Regards,
Sam

 

tomato juice on the rocks with a dash tobasco any good?
must admit i also stopped a girlfrend that spotted a jar of acid free vasaline she even wanted to do the mirrors with
got to watch my remarks and maybe you got a better baby (oil)
lol but seriously...

 

I totally have NO response to that remark!
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa