22m cruising cat design concept

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Becaris, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    You are right, but this only works for boats having few modes of operation (not as diesel/propeller having one design point). Diesel-electrical system with generator and motor is feasible, but service is more complicated. The problem here is that manufacturers of different types of electrical propulsion systems for pleasure boats often do no tell the truth and speculate with numbers. Also boating press is involved in advertisement of such systems, so people are getting brainwashed about 'better use of torque' and 'electrical motor delivers more power than diesel'. In each case, we should read carefully and do engineering analysis first before claiming electrical system is reasonable for particular boat.

    One of good samples of speculation is here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP-WK2QArj4&feature=channel_page
    He says that 25HP engine delivers only 8HP - it is not true!
     
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I did know it happens, thank you for proving me right!
    And the amateurs then are "granting" us professionals the label of professionalism?

    You are right that Becaris has changed his sketches (there is no design), but he did never leave his preconception and still makes wrong claims or statements. (As you too btw.)

    Richard
     
  3. Becaris
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    Becaris Junior Member

    Your ridiculous claims of my seeking 'praise' are unfounded and just plain rude, as are most of your comments. You obviously have no conception of what I am seeking in posting these concept models (not sketches, if you're going to correct someone). I'll spell it out for you, I have posted a concept for the future. The idea in a post like this is to have others help with positive suggestions to develop and evolve new ideas. Of course there are issues and problems with any concept, particularly one this radical. But that's what concepts are for, radical ideas.

    It's often called 'Blue Sky Development'. If you are not familiar with the term it means that at this stage of development you put out any idea and then take a look to see how you could manage it, or if it leads to some other idea. What you don't do in Blue Sky development is stick your head in the sand and close your mind to new ideas, yelling, 'It can't be done, you are stupid! We must always do it the way it was done before!"

    I am CEO of two companies, both of which design new products. If any of my engineers ever walked into a design meeting with the rude and negative behavior that Alik has demonstrated I'd fire them on the spot. The term 'professional' has a lot more to it than the ability to spout numbers and ridicule ideas.

    If I was here to just seek praise, do you think I would have taken any suggestions by anyone and changed the model? (Which, if you read, you will see that I have done).

    <removed personal attack>
     
  4. apex1

    apex1 Guest

     
  5. Becaris
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    Becaris Junior Member

    I like how you run to the moderators when you are called unprofessional, yet think nothing of a personal attack calling someone, and I quote, "Bigmouth".

    Well, not to worry, as I stated, I am done with all your attacks and will not be returning to read this nonsense any further. I have more important things to do than waste my time reading your unhelpful comments. Attack me all you like, I won't be reading any more of your negative posts anyway.
     
  6. sailsocal
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    sailsocal Junior Member

    Assault and Batteries ;-)

    Now that the fighting is over, maybe we can get back to some interesting discussion about electric boats!

    The main problem with battery technology is that the energy density is too low -- they just don't store enough energy for the weight/volume. But Becaris and I agree that this technology is moving quickly and should allow for some great new design possibilities in the coming years. It will be a huge step forward when there is no longer a need for diesel engines with their noise, pollution, and maintenance problems. Fuel system, oil system, cooling system, transmission, and hundreds of moving parts, all to be replaced by a simple direct electric drive with one moving part (armature/prop shaft).

    One company called PolyPlus is promoting their new technology which could drastically improve the battery capacity. The lithium batteries commonly used in consumer devices and electric vehicles today have an energy density of around 100 Wh/kg. PolyPlus claims:

    "Polyplus is developing Li-Sulfur, Li-Air, and Li-Seawater batteries based on protected
    Li electrodes. The projected energy density and specific energy for Li-Air batteries is on
    the order of 1000 Wh/l and 1000 Wh/kg. PolyPlus intends first to commercialize primary
    Li-Air batteries followed by the introduction of secondary Li-Air chemistry. The Li-Seawater
    battery is a primary battery system intended for marine applications. The theoretical
    energy desity for Li-Seawater is 9000 Wh/kg and 4900 Wh/l, and PolyPlus expects to
    deliver cells with practical energy densities of 4000 Wh/kg and 2000 Wh/l."

    Sure it's only a press release, but even if the new technology delivers only HALF what they claim it will be a breakthrough. If we had batteries with 9000 Wh/kg, would we even need sail power at all? Probably just as backup for long-distance cruising.
     
  7. Gilbert
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    Gilbert Senior Member

    Just thought I'd mention that the word professional only means that you are paid to do what you do. Period. It doesn't mean any more than that.
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Jahhh Gilbert, it does not mean
    BTW most real professionals do not get paid, they are well established self employed.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  9. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Agreed. A "professional" boatbuilder may be a 16 year old school leaver who is earning money to buy a motorbike. That is why many production boats are designed to be built very simply. Many home builders build a much better boat.

    A "professional" could also be defined as someone with integrity, ie someone who believes in certain values and sticks to them, even if the customer wants otherwise.

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Fully concur!
     
  11. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Another important feature of professional is level of responsibility for his technical decisions and designs.
     
  12. Gilbert
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    Gilbert Senior Member

    Just in case some don't catch on to what I was implying when I said the word professional means only that you are paid to do what you do, I will clarify a bit.
    Being an amatuer or hobbyist does not necessarily imply that you are not a specialist, Technician, person skilled in the art, expert, skilled or correct. It just means you are not paid to do it.
     
  13. Spiv
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    Spiv Ancient Mariner

    I talk for myself, but I am sure Bacaris has had enough of this.
    Let's all just stick to the thread "22m Cruising Cat Concept", please
     
  14. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    I've had an interest in this Steyr concept for a few years myself:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/diesel-engines/steyr-16943-2.html#post149942

    There was an interesting point made by someone about 'servicing' such an electronic device coupled in line with the drive train....you might have to 'pull' the main engine to get at some problem with the 'generator'.
     

  15. brian eiland
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Lots of sportfishers run around a great majority of the day at virtually idle speed.
     
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