21' to 30' Trimarans

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,597
    Likes: 300, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  2. Jetboy
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 278
    Likes: 6, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 65
    Location: USA

    Jetboy Senior Member

    Is there really a market for a $100k daysailer? Especially when you can buy a Sprint 750 AND a F20 Carbon for the same price? Can the seacart, Motive, and Vitar all compete in a market where there might something like 10-15 boats per year being sold?

    I'm all for new offerings. Will be interesting to see how this one goes.

    Off the top of my head, in the same size range:

    Seacart 26
    Motive 25
    Astus 21
    Scarab 22
    Farrier F22
    Corsair Dash 750 and Sprint 750
     
  3. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
    Posts: 437
    Likes: 11, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 67
    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Gooday 'jetboy' - I'm like you - I don't get it either ??? What's that now 7 or 8 small 'fast' multi's available @ heaps of dollars - for a market of ??? how many world wide ??? Way out of the average family mans budget - IMHO ! !

    With all due respect - SA Vitar 23 - as I see the presentation - is not a boat at all - it is a 'slick' bit of promotional video - nothing else.

    If someone tried to sell my a 'very-fast-tri' with a big -bay-sized - window - that low & in my main hull & then get me to go sailing in a big bay or off-shore - I'd wrap them up in a very tight straight-jacket & off they'd go to the 'loony-bin' - for sure - but there's no way in the world I'd go pushing it hard in a race. Totally safe or water-proof - - in my lunch-box - Never going to happen.

    Now the Multi 23 - shown in a video - of two slightly 'older-than' guys - now that's a real boat - going very well & most importantly - they are having a total blast - which is what it is supposed to be all about - - OH & they are doing it in a real boat - not in a 'virtual' video.

    The whole video - of the Vitar 23 - just totally looses me. What I want to see is REAL sailing boats - even monos. Ciao, james
     
  4. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,740
    Likes: 173, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    I think the more boats out there the better the companies who build and market them are taking the risks not you and me they obviously think there is a market for their products. The Scarab is not a production boat (If we want to include plans the list would be much longer) and the Seacart 26 and Motive 25 are low volume custom builds catering for a limited racing market. The F22 doesn't exist yet as a production boat but they will probably sell quite a few of them certainly more than 15 a year. The Astus 21 has been around for a long time they obviously sell enough to make it worthwhile. I read an article recently where Corsair noted that the Dash and Sprint were their best selling models and the only boats that they keep in stock ready to go.

    I can see why the designers and manufacturers are focussing on this market segment boats of this size make a good trailerable proposition that are a reasonable size and weight to be towed behind a normal family sedan they can also be stored in a relatively small space when towed home. Additionally they also fit within the towing requirements of size and length to be legal in most countries. The 4WD's and tow hitches required to tow a 30' folding trimaran are pretty solid and the issue gets bigger as the boats increase in size.

    Anyway the trimaran in the video is just a render lots of boats are designed and few make it to production I tend to think the Vitar 23 will fall into that category.
     
  5. Jetboy
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 278
    Likes: 6, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 65
    Location: USA

    Jetboy Senior Member

    I'm all for more options as well. I'm just predicting that most if not all of the $100k daysailers are nothing more than a daydream and you'll never see one in your local waters.

    I suspect the computer animation was a "hey look how cool this is - invest $ and we'll sell these."

    I do think the F22 will sell very well. Especially if it comes out around $50k or less. I'd guess the f22 when it becomes available as well as the Sprint 750 outsell the all the flavors of $100k daysailer trimaran combined. Probably in the range of 10:1.

    I'd love to see true a mass production trimaran. IMO an 18-20 footer for $20k ready to sail with trailer would sell very well. Needs to be big enough for 4 people to sail comfortably and outrun a Hunter 170/Hobie Getaway/Vanguard Nomad type boat. It should also have the ability to carry enough outboard to motor at 10 knots. I'd guess with an easily driven hull that's something like 5-8hp.

    You combine those attributes and you have a winner IMO. Doesn't matter what it's made of so long as it's durable and user friendly. I would suggest building in the same style as a Hunter 18 - clam shells of plastic/fiber filled with foam. I would build Keep the price down and offer a carbon kit as an add on.
     
  6. warwick
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 423
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 63
    Location: papakura south auckland new zealand

    warwick Senior Member

    In terms of the F 22 it will be interesting to see what they sell for.
    In terms of the production progress they are working on the deck mold. One thing they are working on is the interior lining, which is on Ian Farrier forum. It can be followed on Ian Farriers web site. Their latest debate is as to what out board, to offer with it.
     
  7. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 474
    Likes: 36, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 42
    Location: Brisbane

    guzzis3 Senior Member

    You mean like a farrier/haines hunter/ostac tramp/eagle ? which you can buy any day of the week for $12k in good order..

    The real downfall for a lot of these boats is a lack of permanent cabin. That adds to resale (and initial sale) far more than the cost of building the roof. Bit like foam sandwich vs every other hull material. Take a look at the second hand prices of the corsair with the trivial cabin compared to the second hand prices of the one with a full cabin.
     
  8. Jetboy
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 278
    Likes: 6, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 65
    Location: USA

    Jetboy Senior Member


    Just like I can buy a 25 year old MacGregor 17 in good working order for $500? Why would anyone pay $12,000 for a 2012 Hunter 18? You can see where I'm going here...

    But yes. Exactly like the eagle/tramp. Although very dated aesthetically it's about the ideal daysailer trimaran for mass appeal. I actually looked for an eagle before I started building my boat and couldn't find one near me for sale.

    And, for $10k the tramp is probably worth more now than it was new in 1985.

    I generally agree with the cabin cost, but then you have to look at sales volume. Sure you might increase profit margin with a $10k increase in price that costs $5k to build, but if you can only sell 35 a year at that price compared to 100 a year at a lower profit margin you may be more profitable with the cheaper model. It would depend on the market of course. Is the Weta a more profitable boat than the corsair sprint? I don't know.

    In this size range a cabin means a really small cockpit. In the under 20 foot range the cabin is great for storage but realistically no-one is going to use it for sleeping in so a very basic cabin for storing the cooler and sails is really what you need.
     
  9. Jetboy
    Joined: Feb 2012
    Posts: 278
    Likes: 6, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 65
    Location: USA

    Jetboy Senior Member

    Of course it's just my opinion, but I think for greater appeal a larger outboard is worthwhile. The reason is that the casual sailor isn't comfortable pushing a boat in heavy weather. They want security and a big outboard means if a storm comes up I can motor back quickly and safely. The casual sailor wants to sail around on nice sunny days and motor back when trouble comes up. Of course the purist sailor wouldn't need more than a trolling motor to get in and out of a crowded marina, but that group is 5% of the potential market. And that's a key reason the macgregor 26 sells so well. It doesn't matter how sea worthy it really is, the motor ability feels safe.
     
  10. warwick
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 423
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 63
    Location: papakura south auckland new zealand

    warwick Senior Member

    Thats Ok Jetboy.

    Were all entitled to our own opinions, what a boring place it would be if we had the same opinion..

    I was just updating everyone as to where they are on the production F 22. They have the floats for one boat made and fitting out a main hull. There appears to be change to the hull profile, from the original plans, mostly with the floats.

    In terms of size it is a catch 22 situation, to small for accommodation to big for a day sailor.
     
  11. warwick
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 423
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 63
    Location: papakura south auckland new zealand

    warwick Senior Member

    A interesting variation with the F 22 that may come out later is a center cockpit version, using a forward cubby cabin with an aft cabin and a boom tent to cover the cockpit. It was mentioned in Ian Farriers forum as to cockpit options to be available for production.
     
  12. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
    Posts: 2,097
    Likes: 40, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 436
    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    The idea of a center cockpit in a small trimaran has proved to be a very wet option. In any choppy sea state the back cabin hatch has to be kept closed, and the cockpit it'self is inundated with spray in any size under 40 ft.
    This is from mine and others experiences with Jim Browns trimarans.
    2C worth.
     
  13. warwick
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 423
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 63
    Location: papakura south auckland new zealand

    warwick Senior Member

    I would have to agree with you Old sailor, you have far more experience/knowledge than I have in this area. From what I under stand, it is more of a coastal boat.
     
  14. joz
    Joined: Jul 2002
    Posts: 167
    Likes: 0, Points: 16, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    joz Senior Member

    Why don't you build your own boat instead in plywood. I am sure that there are designs out there that would suit your needs and budget.
     

  15. warwick
    Joined: Jan 2012
    Posts: 423
    Likes: 7, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 63
    Location: papakura south auckland new zealand

    warwick Senior Member

    Doug is this thread for production trimarans or just all trimarans?

    Another one that may be added to the list is the Nicky Cruz 6.4 trimaran by Greame Delaveau.http://www.delaveaumultihulldesign.com/
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.