2-3m Sit in Performance orientated yacht

Sit-in performance sailboat-7-12'

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Probably not: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmUAZukNqwg&feature=player_embedded
Couldn't do this with a sit-in version but you could sure come up with a fast, exciting ride!

 

Great video!

Thanks Doug.

 

I'd love to have one of those, but you can get grandpa-esque effort and high performance with a tri. I'd love to see a mono planing hull with some outriggers.

http://youtu.be/JTYSleXDAgI

You can even do a bolt on conversion to make a kayak a tri. There are about 60 billion used kayaks out there and windsurfing rigs are cheap as well.

Monos are only good for comfort and/or style

 

Or for excitement, convenience, sensations, accommodation, manoeuvrability, close racing, etc, etc, etc.

Multis are fantastic, small tris are great fun, but it can be very hard to take the propoganda from those who assume that multis are the only way and implicitly assume that those who prefer monos are ignorant, backward or stupid. The OP has already said that he already sails multis and they are not the answer to the quest that this thread is about.

And if speed is your thing, why waste time on a multi when you could be on a kiteboard and going faster for a lot less?

Oh, and to bring reality into your claim that a small tri is faster than a mono- check the Weta handicaps from the UK and Australia. In the UK the Weta with spinnaker is rated slower than the shorter 29er (a youth boat) and 8% slower than the shorter Musto Performance Skiff. According to the UK class site, that yardstick is actually unfair because the Weta is actually SLOWER than the official yardstick - see http://weta.org.uk/page11.html . The US Portsmouth rating is also slower than something like a MPS. Similarly, the Weta is rated slower than the 29er in Scandanavia (LYS system). And the 12s in the video Doug posted are even faster than a 29er or an MPS - by a LONG way.

The 15' long sit-in Challenger tri from the UK is rated officially at 8.5% SLOWER than the 14' Laser - in fact the Challenger is rated .0001 slower than the kid's Laser 4.7 which as just 2/3 the sail area!

I've loved sailing Windriders, Supernovas and Tri Fli and I think that small tris are great boats, but this "multis are just better" stuff (with its implicit attitude that the one-eyed multi fans are smarter and more knowledgeable than mono sailors) is really annoying and makes the multi community seem like a rather arrogant bunch, which they are not in reality.

Oh, and it's very hard to find a windsurfing rig with the correct lift/drag ratios to give a small tri performance anything like that of a fast dinghy. Board rigs are normally designed for hulls with much lower drag (i.e. 6kg planing hulls) and for higher apparent winds. The standard windsurfer rig is too low-powered to perform well even on a 16kg 12'6" longboard, much less on a 50kg+ 16' tri.

 

But -

 

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Terry, "that fast" in your quote above refers specifically to the 20 knots of his other boat(an A Class cat). The reason I mention it is that quote by itself could lead one to conclude that SK was not interested in performance-but the rest of the post indicates that he is interested in high performance("for its length"). But almost any small sitinboat ftom 7-12 ' is going to create a sensation of speed since the crew is so close to the water. Thats one of the cool things about little sit-in designs. I'm curious what it would be like sailing a small sit-in boat that was really fast since boats the the Minuet and International 2.4 meter aren't in real terms. Nevertheless sailing any small sit-in boat should be a blast......

 

Time for some Fun!

My question is: why not?

click on image:

 

I don't know enough about those boats to say anything about how they compare.

What I do know is a sit in tri can hit (supposedly) 12 knots. No mono can approach that with so little effort.

When I'm sailing my monohull, I get passed by old guys napping on their catamarans while I'm trying my hardest to break hull speed without getting dumped.
even if I had a high performance boat that could keep up, I'd be expending 10x the effort.

People have used windsurfing rigs on outrigger canoes and they work just fine.

 

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The OP decided against multihulls so this thread is about small(7- 12+') monohulls. One thing: small tris as currently designed within this size range
are generally slower than the same length monohull. It doesn't have to be that way but it is......Here is a thread about the design of a 12' "sit-on" trimaran where the crew only has to move about 2'. Fairly detailed. The "MPX" system described here is being used on my new tri after initial experiments with a low power configuration. Here is the MPX 12 thread: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/mpx-11-very-small-high-power-trimaran-33686.html
Back to sit -in monohulls.

 

If you mean that you don't know how the Weta and Challenger compare to that snappy SWarren tri you linked to, then it's probably fair to say that it looks to be slower than the Weta (which is a hiking tri with assy) and presumably a bit faster than the Challenger - they are generally similar in dimensions but Warren is miles lighter.

If you mean you don't know how the small tris compare in speed to monos, then just look to the RYA. They have used analysis of a huge number of races (454 races by the Challenger, a smaller number by the Weta and a rather staggering 55,000 by the Lasers this year alone) to derive those handicaps. So one the one hand we have data derived from thousands of races and on the other hand, your experience against cats rather than tris in some boat that has trouble at hull speed.....

I have little doubt that a sit-in tri can reach 12 knots (even Laser sailors have claimed higher speeds that that, and you can get a Laser pretty much maxed out without hiking at all if you are sailing deep enough) but the fact that you apparently don't like making a physical effort doesn't justify writing off all monohulls as being only good for two things.

How good "just fine" a windsurfer rig is in a small tri is a matter of personal opinion and definition, I suppose. The simple and undeniable fact is that professional sailmakers make different rigs for 12' long Raceboards than the ones they make for "normal" short boards, because the maximum draft, leach tension/twist, etc must change according to the drag of the hull that they are pushing. Yes, you could of course use one on a small tri but whether a canoe or kayak with floats and a windsurfer rig on top is going to do what the OP wanted is a different story altogether.

PS - I have a sailing canoe and spent last season racing a shorthanded trimaran offshore so I am in no way attacking multis or canoes and kayaks, merely pointing out that monos have many virtues.

 

Illusion single handed keel boat

Whats cool about this boat is that it is about the same amount longer than the Minuet as it is shorter than the International 2.4 meter, yet it carries a spinnaker. Pictures here: http://s197695124.websitehome.co.uk/tinc?key=o9TRwpf9&fs_settings=1,0,1,5,800,740

LOA 3.27m / 10.7'
Beam .85m / 2.8'
SA:
--main 2.82sq.m / 30.3 sq.ft
--jib 2.46 sq.m / 26.46 sq.ft
--spin 5.6 sq.m / 60.25 sq.ft

 

The Illusion is a great boat, saw them racing a couple of years ago. Not so easy in and out of the water though. Here's a couple of ideas from either end of the size scale (the sharpie is from 2004, the Open 8 from 2010):

The sharpie is the simplest possible boat. Casette rudder as I wanted to keep the weight out of the stern and also have a more efficient foil. 6mm ply hull, 4mm ply deck, either stitch and glue or stringers. I was thinking of using a simple alloy tube for the lower mast with a suitable windsurf mast (maybe with some more carbon laminated on for stiffness) for the upper. Sails are white reinforced polytarp but properly panelled with broadseam and luff curve. Laminated hardwood keel fin, lead bulb (on a long fin to get righting moment, was thinking of 80kg and an all up empty weight of 140-150kg).

The Open 8 would be 6mm cedar strip bottom with 200g/m2 inside and out, 4mm ply everywhere else. 15kg ballasted daggerboard. Windsurfer mast with carbon added, maybe play around with an assymetric kite to see if it is worth the hassle. Empty weight around 50kg. If it was sailed 'arms out' then I'd reduce the freeboard a bit. In fact I'll do that I think.

These are just sketches at the moment although the hydrostatic calculations have been done. If i had more time on my hands (and didn't already own 4 boats) I'd start one today.

Should add that the Sharpie keelboat is 4.5m, the Open 8 is 2.4m

 

Cat Schooner

I posted this little "paint" sketch back in April 2012. But it has been growing on me ever since. I might try this on the new boat someday. I've realized that with careful design you could bring the sails right down to the deck which should increase power. It was inspired by Gary Baigent's Cox's Bay Skimmer which is a very ,very neat boat.