2-3m Sit in Performance orientated yacht

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The original poster specified "roughly 3m in length-not sure about that yet".
He further elaborated: a length a bit bigger than a Minuet and smaller than a 2.4 meter. A 2.4 Meter(that he was referring to) is the International 2.4 Meter singlehanded keelboat that is 14' long!
So he was talking about a boat between 3m( 9.8' and 14'). He further stated (in the DA version of this thread)that he had a Cherub in the garage. Cherubs are 12' and fit the bill perfectly.
For the least amount of work converting the Cherub seems like a good idea.
Another reason its a good idea is that it is designed as a two person boat so for a sit-in version one crew member could be placed in a bulb keel or in a sliding on-deck movable ballast system. The rig would be reduced to reflect the anticipated RM and voila-he has a sit-in boat ! Add DSS and the performance level and power to carry sail would only increase.

the original post:

 

CutOnce: my boats are type 1) and 2) and both are also type 3) of necessity since I don't live at the waterside (sigh) and don't want the bother of a trailer.

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It is hard for a newcomer to realise how much there is to learn about boat design and how much innovation has already been tried. There is so much in the forum that one doesn't know where to start; when I first started here it seemed the more I learned the more there was to discover.

The things to remember about sailboat speed are -

a) serious sailboat speed is expensive and rare
b) a good run of speed is over in a flash and most of the time you are just pottering along
c) it depends on the wind which is rarely cooperative
d) generally you're not racing so there's nobody to compare yourself against
e) most of the fun comes from getting the best out of the boat or silent contemplation of nature as predetermined by the wind - see b & c
f) the sensation of speed is more apparent than real: 4k in a sailing kayak feels like 16k in an Olympic class catamaran *
g) if the speed is actually important to you then get a motorboat (sounds like you already have one)
h) nothing else that is legal and moral compares with sailing a boat you have built yourself

* observation based on personal experience

 

High Performance Sit-in Monohull

Below are options that may fulfill the OP's Statement of Requirements(SOR) starting with his options as he sees them:

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B) Additional options as I see them:

1) Wide, Open 60 shape hull, no keel, retracting daggerboard or twin curved retracting, lifting boards, on deck movable ballast, asy spin.

2) Same as 1 with added DSS using fixed foils while sailing( removable for transport/stowage) for increased RM particularly off the wind. Adds RM w/o adding appreciable weight and could increase power to carry sail 30-50%. Should be used with some form of movable ballast upwind.

3) Conversion of Op's Cherub(post 170 in thread below) to a high performance sit-in dinghy by utilizing #1 and #2 above. Cherub is an ideal candidate for conversion to a ballasted and foil assisted(DSS) sit-in dinghy(or planing main hull for a small trimaran) and the work could probably be done w/o destroying the viability of the boat being sailed as a Cherub. Amount of ballast required would be less if DSS was used.

4) Within the size range specified by Sailing Kid( 9.8 -14') 12' is ideal for a good combination of cost and performance especially if the Cherub is used.
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C) Canting Keel miniboat-idea from SK on Dinghy Anarchy, (post 84 in thread link below):

Rough Sketch by Sailing Kid from post 84 here: DA Thread= http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=129427&st=0
click on image-

 

This thread sure went in a weird direction, in the op he said he wasn't even concerned about going fast and that his inquiry at SA went all sideways with exotic ideas. Which is exactly where this thread went.
There is no way in the world that you're going to have a 3m planing boat where you sit in the middle that isn't an absolute handful to sail. It might not even be doable since you've taken out the human kinetics that make these things work. You aren't going to be able to get any sort of mechanical stability generating devise to react fast enough to changing loads on a boat this small.
I think after reading the op's first post what would match his SOR the closest would be a 2.4m style ballasted boat. He could have his jib and assy, be able to cruise around his lake in the evenings and have a ball. Make sure you include a gimballed drink holder.

 

The suggestions for the OP from me have emphasized maximum performance for a given length as he specifically said he wanted. But they would be nowhere near as fast as his A Cat but would be loads of fun for a singlehanded sit in boat and be faster than any design I have yet seen for a monohull that meets these requirements. Development would, however, require lots of work......
Quotes from the first post:

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That is just not true! I've done it over the last 15 years on rc models and have designed a system for a full size high performance dinghy that will move as fast as a crew can move.

 

No it can't, it also can't assimilate and anticipate.

 

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There are a couple of versions of the system: 1) on a small boat the crew moves the weight pulling on a line, turning a wheel,or moving a lever, 2) another version for disabled sailors or sailors that don't want to pull a line etc. uses an electrical system controlled by a small joystick that causes the weight to move very quickly. In both cases the crew "assimilates and anticipates". In both cases the weight moves as fast or faster than a crew could move.
Below is a summary of the design work done by Rick Willoughby and myself for the 18' Trapwing prototype-much larger than the boats in this thread but it shows that regardless of the weight it can be made to move fast. That is made possible by the Trapeze Power Ballast System that supports the weight of the sealed ballast wing by using trapeze wires from the mast:

Pictures: 1) & 2) model of 18' Trapwing Prototype using the Trapeze Power Ballast System above:

 

Guys, let's please keep the discussions here polite to all other members and avoid personal insults. If another member is posting material which you believe is not of interest, please add them to your ignore list, but please refrain from personal attacks. Thanks.

 

Canting keel/ SK idea post 33

My opinion is that either sliding ballast within a buoyant sliding "wing" or a small fixed(retractable) keel in combination with a DSS foil or foils would be better than the canting keel especially at 10-12' LOA for a "sit-in" type of performance sailboat.
In terms of crew workload, the removable side mounted(non-retractable) DSS foils and fixed keel with minimal weight would likely be best. The boat is small enough that if it could be designed with the cockpit floor above the waterline so it self-drained then sailing with no ballast might be possible if the crew could move a bit to windward.
To keep the crew stationary side to side and maintain a high performance design then the sliding ballast "wing" would probably be worthwhile since it is so simple to build and install. Used in combination with fixed or retractable DSS foils would add appreciably to the power to carry sail downwind.

 

I'm sorry, does this in any way answer the OP's SOR for a boat he could home build for evening sails around his little lake?
Once again you've taken a thread distorted it to fit your own vision and chased everyone else away. Good job.
I'm gone.

 

I did all that? Wow, I just answered the questions posed by the OP as best I could. If you disagree and can back it up with facts you should post them -not back away. Anyones opinion is just that-I tried to be detailed as possible and to give as much info as possible. Walking away solves nothing IF you really believe you have a better answer. In the end it is up to SK and it seems like the more info the better it is for him.......
And yes, what I have proposed(several different ideas) to meet his requirements is not overly complex within the framework of his stated requirement of "high performance for its length".
But it is SK's decision-not mine or yours but your ideas could be just as valuable to him as anyone elses......

 

He's right Doug, you have wandered away from the objective, and you're not the only one. I appreciate your desire to educate folk on the arcane aspects of boat design that you wish to promote but it would have been easier for you to just provide a link to the DSS and other threads.

Fascinating though off-topic posts can sometimes be, speaking for myself I get frustrated when I discover a thread on an interesting topic and have to wade through reams of irrelevance to get to the meat of the matter, when a few links could greatly reduce thread bulk and server load and also speed comprehension.

 

2-3m Sit-in Performance Oriented Yacht

I am passionately interested in the enormous opportunity a small range of boats like this provides for innovative design both from a classical and ultra modern perspective. Experimentation on little boats like this is just one cut above experimenting with RC sailboats and should allow almost anyone the opportunity to play around with ideas that on larger boats might be too expensive, hard to handle etc.. So what if an idea doesn't work-try another one! I think there is tremendous potential here to think out loud about ideas that might be worth trying just for the fun of it in small boats like this. After my tri is complete I'm going to build an L60 or? that is small, experimental, wild , fun to sail and fun to fool around with. Sailing Kid struck a nerve with me with his first thread on DA and then Sealed the Deal with the posting of the Minuet video-out of sight! see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWRFd9kQmqY
The design elements of small boats between 7-12' offer the chance to try new things or to experiment with old things that work well on bigger boats. This thread could offer the opportunity to consider many variations on a theme of design innovation in very small boats and could be a blast for all involved if everyones ideas are respected for their intrinsic value to the thread. No one concept can dominate such a design exercise-look at SK's own first post and the options he mentions as well as a post from DA where he discusses a canting keel for a small boat. Wild, interesting and well worth the time spent in consideration of variations of a " small sit-in performance yacht". Thanks for the inspiration, SK!

 

The answer is simple, just build a take apart multihull. Unbolting hulls could be in 8' lengths. A 16' tri can get very fast and you can still build it so you don't have to move at all.

A 12 foot mono for speed is a waste of design time

Actually, I just read the post better....12 foot is still a waste