Wharram Tiki wrecked in Thailand

Hi RWatson,

I had it built in Thailand primarily because of Creed who built the first Tiki 38. I thought that following behind him I could learn from his mistakes...and besides my background is power catamarans not sail so I am a novice in that department whereas Creed is a highly experienced sailor.

Anyway, I did learn from Creeds mistakes and I added to that by learning from some of my own...primarily due to misplaced trust.

Interestingly as it turned out I could have contracted for the same deal in New Zealand for less money, but I didn't bother checking at the time as I thought it would be fun to build at the same time as Creed and we could do a bit of crusing around South East Asia together. It was quite convenient as I have a subsidiary in Thailand so I commute back and forth quite reguarly.

The 300% premium came about as follows: I was told by the builder that a progress payment was due when I was in NZ and beleiving that to be true I wired him the money. When I arrived to check out the boat it was miles away from being at the point where the progress payment was due. I had at that time sent him US$75,000 but there was less than US$25,000 worth of work completed...thus the 300% calculation.

On hind sight I would have been best to have removed it from the yard and put it up for auction as is and started again in NZ or with Gunther Nutt in Phuket and not incurred the expense of shipping the hulls back to NZ and the additional expense of fixing the structural deficiencies. But...I didn't, so I only have myself to blame.

I don't hold any illwill to ***** as it was my own fault for not being diligent enough at the time... But...he is beginning to annoy me with his childish name calling...

We will see what evolves from this point on. Maybe quite interesting.

Cheers,

Warren

 

RB changed info

Alik responded "this is not true" and, see quote:

RB changed info:

"At the beginning, he and I worked to redraw the hull lines to better suit strip-planking."

Well that's clear, no involvement of any naval architect mentioned anymore :!:

@ Alik, I apologize for the "one of you is ......" statement I made about this. That was also harmful to the one who was telling the truth, so I should not have said that.

@ Jeff, thanks for the deleting of that inappropriate post.

Regards, Angélique

 

same thing happened to me

This also happened to me with the Penny 26. Except I was not conned into paying after Chris Harrell was fired, so save myself thousands of dollars. In my case Chris was very good about keeping me up to date with pics on a weekly basis. Good thing too because plywood bulkhead cutouts were in the wrong place. transom knees too small. Transom knees bolted up incorrectly. Ballast not installed, on, and on...

On the bright side, I probably would have paid for, and sailed off in, a death trap if I had not been diligent about progress pics. Trusting RB went out the window when Chris' replacement, one Allan Ganz, did not reply to my emails for 3 months prior to RB's progress payment invoice.

cheers
robert self

 

He probably treats those poor Thais with the same attitude we have seen in his posts.

"Trusting RB went out the window when Chris' replacement, one Allan Ganz, did not reply to my emails for 3 months prior to RB's progress payment invoice."

Sounds like he is still in Management Systems 101 after all the hard work training staff, and has yet to enroll in ethical business conduct course.

"Its the age of Enron, baby"

 

No properly built RB boat till to date?

"R... B... founded his boat-building company, RB P... & S..., in T... in 1998."

Hi *****,

11½ years to teach your crew how to build a proper boat is from the start off your company until now. Does that mean that your yard has not delivered a proper boat till to date?

Just curious

Regards, Angélique

 

Wharram lashings

I'm not sure Wharram's methods of holding beams onto the hulls worked well at any time. In a six month time frame in the S. Pacific in 1977-78, two Wharrams known to me personally disappeared on passages. I always suspected that they came apart where the beams joined the hulls - they were held by thin steel straps that had layers of cut tire pieces under them. The attachments seemed too flexible and flimsy for big, steep waves to me, and I had spent plenty of time sailing in big waves.

 

That sounds like someone went against the designers instructions.

 

Wharram classic design hull beam connections

Right !

Wharram classic design hull beam connection from below to above:

- The connection bolts fixed through strengthened gunwhales.
- Steel brackets fixed to the beams.
- The connection bolts through the beam brackets.
- The connection bolts through high compression rubbers.
- Nuts on the connection bolts to press down the high compression rubbers to the brackets with's press down the beams to the hulls.
- Flexibility is adjustable by the nuts on top of the connection bolts.

See also: "Modifications to the standard plans can be dangerous."

Regards, Angélique

 

This is an interesting read: http://www.wallerdesign.com.au/Docs/But Its Only A Little Change.pdf

 

And here was me thinking they still used ropes, and the ropes now being so much stronger than before adding to their safety, but it seems not

 

Rope beam lashings and 'felxibel fixed fastenings' on Wharram's

Wharram rope beam lashings were developed after modern high-tech synthetic ropes became available and are only safe with the use of modern high-tech synthetic ropes. Rope beam lashings are standard on the newer Wharram Designs.

The 'felxibel fixed fastenings' I described is the old fastening system for Wharram Classic Designs and it was developed before modern high-tech synthetic ropes became available. Plan Sheet O7, 'Beamlashings for Classic Designs', is ment to use rope beam lashings on Wharram Classic Designs instead of the old attachment method that is standard on the Classic Designs.

Regards, Angélique

 

"But it's only a little change"

Thanks, I will read it tomorrow. It's now night in europe!

Regards, Angélique

 

It will be interesting to see if the mentioned builder who seems to threaten to sue everyone will try and sue James Wharram for being called out in his warning. That could be a revealing court case

 

Court

That would be fun

Regards, Angélique

 

Designer redrew hull shape

******,

You sent me this e-mail telling me that you re-drew the hulls and changed the design of the hull shape.


Dear Rod,
Saturday, February 7, 2009, 12:08:16 AM, you wrote:

Dear Mr. *******,

I am interested in buying a New Tiki 38 in Thailand that I understand you made significant changes to Wharram's design.
Can you tell me anymore about the changes you made to this design?
I notice the deck shear line is different, no chines, and I heard that the boat's keels are now sacrificial. Did you change the freeboard, bow angle, and hull shape?
How did these changes change the overall structure of the boat?
Thank you very much.

Rod Jones

******'s reply:


We have done modifications of hull shape only, on customer's request. The hull is re-drawn for round bilge shape and slightly increased displacment, but profile (and also sheerline) is same with the original boat. We've got sections of orignal Tiki and just rounded them to get new shape.
We did not involve in structural design of this boat, this was done by customer and builder.

Best regards,
****** *******