Captain's license requirements

[masrapido]

The US does not issue "Captain's Licenses" or "Skipper's Licences", though those terms are sometimes used informally. Rather it issues licenses to individuals as "Masters" and "Operators of Un-Inspected Vessels". Both require a combination of "sea-time" and passing an exam. There are various endorsements to each which restrict the vessels an individual's license is applicable to.

Not trying to be arrogant, but you asked question because you did not have the knowledge, and now you suddenly brimming with it. And it is still wrong. As I said consult your Port Authorities to see what license applies to you. And yes, they DO call them skippers and captains too. They must. It is not an option. Master title applies to vessels to 100 tons. Captain is for everything above that. In accordance with local rules.

In the US the term "captain" is generally used for a person in command of a vessel and does not depend on holding a particular license. I'm not aware of it having any legal significance.

As, above. Wrong. Get informed before correcting someone who is making an effort to give you an answer. As for the legal significance, I was not referring to the usa, I was talking in general. There's more tho the world than just usa. The world operates on international maritime rules that apply to usa too, so a certain level of compatibility exist regardless of what you may have found on internet and misunderstood it along the way.

This is not true for many countries. For example there is no requirement for any type of license to leave the territorial waters of the US in a leisure vessel. Requirements for entering the territorial waters of another country are a different question. For example I can visit Canada in my boat and do not need a license or operator's certificate for short visits.

As above. Wrong again. You will notice that I said in many countries, not in every country. That indicates that there will be countries that are not signatories to those maritime laws, or are not implementing them when they should if they are signatories.

Every country signatory to a variety of international maritime rules must comply with those international agreements. While, being the chaos that usa is, I strongly doubt it that un-certified skipper would be let to sail into Canada. There may be bilateral agreements in place between Canada and usa that may allow that, but that would have to apply only to boats that would sail within a defined corridor between the two countries.You would have to be issued a fine in Canada, or any other country for that matter, if you had your boat not insured and sailed it without the certificate as a skipper, from outside of such a corridor. That in practice you may get away with it, that's another story. But, again, I doubt it. You must hold a valid certificate (license un usa...) to be allowed to operate a vessel at sea.

If you ixquick (secure search engine) it you will find that even in the usa the international rule of the distance from the shore applies to skipper/master/captain (notice the order. that is the true hierarchy of those boat-managing positions) certificates. You will find that you may get away with it not because usa "allows" it but because the Canada and the usa accept each other's categories of certificates for skippers. As long as you comply with the distance from the shore that is valid in respective countries and keep the legal minimum of passengers (again: according to respective country's, laws) you may be let off.

The same would apply to insurance. If Canada accepts your vessel un-insured, you will be fine. But, again, I doubt it. You would be slapped with a hefty fine even in Canada, if they follow the law there.

Remember, for authoritative info you must ask the Port Authorities in your country. Only they can tell you what you can do and where.

But no country in the world will let you operate a 1180 tons ship with a crew of volunteers. You must have a radio operator, a machine crew, a SOLAS-compliant equipment, an insurance for the vessel and the crew, etc. etc. etc. etc. Everything and everyone MUST be certified for their duty/function on board. I doubt you'd be allowed to leave the berth with your family, friends or anonimous volunteers as a crew, and no certificates. The world doesn't work that way. Only Hollywood movies do.

 

[rxcomposite]

Master if it is a British calling, Captain if it is an American. Different countries call them Captain or Master depending on the historical influence.

Over here there is also some confusion in the Marine Authorities. Master is a "position" while "Captain" is a title given to a licenced person. There is also the title "Patron" category for those who did not receive a university degree (or underlicensed Marine officer) but have demonstrated to the authorities they have the experience and the capabilty to command a fishing vessel of not more than 500 GT plying International waters.

 

[DCockey]

Not trying to be arrogant, but you asked question because you did not have the knowledge, and now you suddenly brimming with it. And it is still wrong. As I said consult your Port Authorities to see what license applies to you. And yes, they DO call them skippers and captains too. They must. It is not an option. Master title applies to vessels to 100 tons. Captain is for everything above that. In accordance with local rules.



As, above. Wrong. Get informed before correcting someone who is making an effort to give you an answer. As for the legal significance, I was not referring to the usa, I was talking in general. There's more tho the world than just usa. The world operates on international maritime rules that apply to usa too, so a certain level of compatibility exist regardless of what you may have found on internet and misunderstood it along the way.

I did not start this thread, and the only question I asked was a somewhat rhetorical one about the claims in immediate previous posts that no licenses are required for non-commercial vessels of any size in the US. In an earlier post in the thread I provided information about the requirements for the person in command of US vessels of various sizes.

Before making the post you responded to I checked the US Code section on licenses for mariners, and the relevant section of the USCG website. In the US the license to operate vessels over 100 tons is called a Masters license with the appropriate endorsement, not a Captain's license. That what the local rule in the US is. A friend recently received his US Master's license with an unlimited tonnage endorsement.

As above. Wrong again. You will notice that I said in many countries, not in every country. That indicates that there will be countries that are not signatories to those maritime laws, or are not implementing them when they should if they are signatories.

You said (direct quote) "The laws differ from country to country, but in any event unless you have a skipper's licence you cannot leave your country's territorial waters with your leisure vessel."

The phrase "but in any event" means that what follows is true in all circumstances.

"unless you have a skipper's licence you cannot leave your country's territorial waters with your leisure vessel." is not true if the boat is leaving the US. It may be true for some other countries.

Every country signatory to a variety of international maritime rules must comply with those international agreements. While, being the chaos that usa is, I strongly doubt it that un-certified skipper would be let to sail into Canada. There may be bilateral agreements in place between Canada and usa that may allow that, but that would have to apply only to boats that would sail within a defined corridor between the two countries.You would have to be issued a fine in Canada, or any other country for that matter, if you had your boat not insured and sailed it without the certificate as a skipper, from outside of such a corridor. That in practice you may get away with it, that's another story. But, again, I doubt it. You must hold a valid certificate (license un usa...) to be allowed to operate a vessel at sea.

If you ixquick (secure search engine) it you will find that even in the usa the international rule of the distance from the shore applies to skipper/master/captain (notice the order. that is the true hierarchy of those boat-managing positions) certificates. You will find that you may get away with it not because usa "allows" it but because the Canada and the usa accept each other's categories of certificates for skippers. As long as you comply with the distance from the shore that is valid in respective countries and keep the legal minimum of passengers (again: according to respective country's, laws) you may be let off.

The same would apply to insurance. If Canada accepts your vessel un-insured, you will be fine. But, again, I doubt it. You would be slapped with a hefty fine even in Canada, if they follow the law there.

Remember, for authoritative info you must ask the Port Authorities in your country. Only they can tell you what you can do and where.

The official Transport Canada webpage on Requirements for Foreign Recreational Boaters In Canadian Waters is located at http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-quick-quick_visitor-1610.htm#1 The section on Operator Competency Regulations includes

• The Regulations do not apply to non-residents who operate their pleasure craft in Canadian waters for less than 45 consecutive days. Please note that a proof of residence will be required on board at all times.​

Nothing about what whether the non-resident enters Canada via US waters or international waters, where the voyage originated, the course taken, or about the country of residence or citizenship of the non-resident.

I did not find any references to insurance requirements on the Transport Canada website.

SOLAS and STWC are the primary international treaties affecting licensing requirements for mariners. My understanding is some vessels, particularly smaller vessels not carrying passengers for hire are not covered by these treaties, unless coverage is extended by the country the vessel is registered in. It seems that most pleasure craft are exempt from SOLAS and STWC though they do apply to very large yachts.

But no country in the world will let you operate a 1180 tons ship with a crew of volunteers. You must have a radio operator, a machine crew, a SOLAS-compliant equipment, an insurance for the vessel and the crew, etc. etc. etc. etc. Everything and everyone MUST be certified for their duty/function on board. I doubt you'd be allowed to leave the berth with your family, friends or anonimous volunteers as a crew, and no certificates. The world doesn't work that way. Only Hollywood movies do.

I assume you are reacting to my post:

So in theory I could buy an old 188 foot, 1183 ton vessel, crew it with volunteers, no one with any credentials, and go cruising if I didn't care about insurance? http://www.pacificboatbrokers.com/de..._Number=PS3259

Interesting.​

That post was in response to a post by Ike which I'm skeptical about it's universal applicability:

If you operate the vessel yourself strictly as a recreational vessel you don't need a license. If you hire a professional to operate it they must be licensed, depending on the size (tonnage and type, motor, sail). If you carry passengers for hire, then the captain must be licensed whether that is you or a Captain for hire.

However, The comment about insurance is true. Insurance on a vessel of that size and value would most likely have to be marine insurance. I doubt very much it would be insured the way most small recreational boats are. In order to insure a vessel of that size the insurance company would most likely require it be built to a known standard such as MCA, USCG rules for passenger vessels, Lloyds, ABS, or various others. Plus they would want to know it was being operated by a competent person so you might have to get a license but it would probably be a six pack (uninspected vessel carrying six or less passengers for hire) to satisfy the insurance company.

I am qualifying all these statements with things like "most likely" because each case is different.

 

[michael pierzga]

Licensing requirements are a complex subject. Best to do your homework before traveling internationally.

The american license is a good one. It will be regognized worldwide. Get one.

 

[Ike]

That post was in response to a post by Ike which I'm skeptical about it's universal applicability:

You may be skeptical of it but it is true. I am a retired Coast Guard Officer. I spent 20 years in uniform and another 14 as a a Coast Guard engineer. 25 of those 34 years were spent in recreational boating safety. In that time one of my collateral duties (that mean things I did in addition to my regular assignment) was testing operators for the six pack (6 or less passengers for hire) license. I regularly dealt with people passing through US customs who were entering on a yacht and had some discrepancy in the boat. I could go on.

When it comes to recreational vessels the US is very lax in requirements and this includes visiting yachts. A visiting yacht can get a cruising permit that allows them to cruise anywhere in the US for up to ninety days. The only documents require are the same as for any entry into the US, A passport, and the vessel documents and for some persons, a visa. The vessel of course must meet the usual safety requirements for lifejackets, bells whistles, fire extinguishers, etc.

 

[Stumble]

To the best of my knowledge, there is no legal restriction on the maximum size vessel that a private operator without a license can use in the US. In reality it's a bit of a nonsense question, since when you start talking bout large vessels you are also talking about wealth owners, and large insurance policies. And the insurance companies demand licensing far beyond what the law does.

But as a matter of law, assuming you could afford it, there is no legal restriction on someone with no boating experience buying an aircraft carrier and tooling around federal waters on it for fun (ignoring the NRC issues).

It is possible that the local Coast Guard Commander could terminate the voyage for being fundamentally unsafe. But I have never heard of this occurring due to the size of the vessel. But then who would own a multi-million dollar vessel with a couple hundred thousand dollars deductable insurance police, and skimp fifty grand on a captain.

 

[DCockey]

...... But then who would own a multi-million dollar vessel with a couple hundred thousand dollars deductable insurance police, and skimp fifty grand on a captain.

A large vessel doesn't have to be a multi-million dollar vessel. There are plenty of old vessels around available cheap. For instance the Pacific Aurora is 1183 gross tons, 188 feet in length, and last hauled in 2010. She is well equipped with multiple staterooms and accommodations. Asking price reduced to $799,000 US. http://www.pacificboatbrokers.com/details.asp?File_Number=PS3259 Poke around and you can probably finder a larger vessel for less.

 

[powerabout]

call it a drilling rig, foreign flag it and then you wont need any qualification

 

[powerabout]

Licensing requirements are a complex subject. Best to do your homework before traveling internationally.

The american license is a good one. It will be regognized worldwide. Get one.

True
there has been a few problems with the MCA mickey mouse 'yacht' tickets they have found that many countries have laws that say a vessel over a certain size is a commercial vessel

Most US tickets are NOT recognised worldwide as the US is not in compliance with STCW95
the only ones that are are at the 3000t so either side so limited and unlimited foreign going
The USCG call that 1600/3000ITC Americans mostly have problems overseas as nobody can understand their system

 

[powerabout]

You may be skeptical of it but it is true. I am a retired Coast Guard Officer. I spent 20 years in uniform and another 14 as a a Coast Guard engineer. 25 of those 34 years were spent in recreational boating safety. In that time one of my collateral duties (that mean things I did in addition to my regular assignment) was testing operators for the six pack (6 or less passengers for hire) license. I regularly dealt with people passing through US customs who were entering on a yacht and had some discrepancy in the boat. I could go on.

When it comes to recreational vessels the US is very lax in requirements and this includes visiting yachts. A visiting yacht can get a cruising permit that allows them to cruise anywhere in the US for up to ninety days. The only documents require are the same as for any entry into the US, A passport, and the vessel documents and for some persons, a visa. The vessel of course must meet the usual safety requirements for lifejackets, bells whistles, fire extinguishers, etc.

and your USCG pollution permit if over 300grt the correct sewerage system, that is one good system the US has.
99% of the megayachts are built to ensure they pass that
PS
they cant inspect your safety equipment ( ok they can ) but cant do anything about it as they cant do a flag state inspection on a private vessel and enforce it.
I guess they could detain if fundamental unsafe and fair enough.
I felt sorry for the USCG as clearly the guys get no training in what to do with a foreign flag private vessel, especially when its big.

 

[michael pierzga]

You may be skeptical of it but it is true. I am a retired Coast Guard Officer. I spent 20 years in uniform and another 14 as a a Coast Guard engineer. 25 of those 34 years were spent in recreational boating safety. In that time one of my collateral duties (that mean things I did in addition to my regular assignment) was testing operators for the six pack (6 or less passengers for hire) license. I regularly dealt with people passing through US customs who were entering on a yacht and had some discrepancy in the boat. I could go on.

When it comes to recreational vessels the US is very lax in requirements and this includes visiting yachts. A visiting yacht can get a cruising permit that allows them to cruise anywhere in the US for up to ninety days. The only documents require are the same as for any entry into the US, A passport, and the vessel documents and for some persons, a visa. The vessel of course must meet the usual safety requirements for lifejackets, bells whistles, fire extinguishers, etc.

Since you are ex CG and work with small craft you should lobby the authorities to reform the American licensing regime concerning the operation of Yachts...small craft.

The base amercan license is difficult for young americans to aquire. 720 days of sea time...that would be 5 or ten years of summer work. As a result of this onerous requirement American young people are absent from the superyacht market

The british system...yachtmaster...offers young people a fast way in becuase it requires very little sea time. The logic is that you cant get seatime if you arent operating boats, so get people on boats, license them with the base knowledge, them let the progress to full commercial qualifications while being employed Paid and operating small craft.

 

[powerabout]

anybody ( nationality) can get a yachtmaster ( its miles in a voyage which is a good way to do it) and in fact any MCA license BUT a yachtmaster doesnt get to commercial you need to be on a commercial vessel for that over 500GRT
its only the US ( as far as I know and Brazil as the course is in Portuguese (how did they get to join STCW-95 is anyones guess)) that prevent foreigners from holding their licences due the military thingy.

 

[powerabout]

I think the funny thing that will happen in the US shortly re MODU's is you will end up with unlimited captains that have never been anywhere..

 

[michael pierzga]

anybody ( nationality) can get a yachtmaster ( its miles in a voyage which is a good way to do it) and in fact any MCA license BUT a yachtmaster doesnt get to commercial you need to be on a commercial vessel for that over 500GRT
its only the US ( as far as I know and Brazil as the course is in Portuguese (how did they get to join STCW-95 is anyones guess)) that prevent foreigners from holding their licences due the military thingy.

Dont confuse yachting with commercial.

A British yachting ticket, plus the proper seatime and course work will quailfy you for a commercial grade ticket.

A yachtmaster ticket is a form of education for young people. All education is good. The Yachtmaster program is fantastic. The marine industry needs more education.

One reason you very rarely see Americans fly internationaly and charter a 35 footer for a two week holiday is that they are not licensed to operate yachts. Many countries require certification before you can bareboat charter.

This lack of American clients is Bad for the marine industry.

The US has a good system of Power Squadron marine education for boaters. The Coast Gaurd should intergrate with the Power Squadron and develope a yacht grade license, certificate of competence, that all american boater can aquire. A knowledge of the Rules of the Road and saftey at sea are valuable to all boaters.

Good for the industry.

Of coarse an American could aquire a British Yachtmasters...at great expense. Why play this game ? Far better to have a US Coast Gaurd supervised American Yachtmaster ticket

 

[powerabout]

Michael

I am confused where you say dont confuse yachtmaster with commercial yet you say a yachtmaster with seatime gets you a commercial grade ticket...NOT
If you havnt spend 3 years in a college you cant get a commercial ticket