You're all going to say not again...........

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Acid house, May 23, 2011.

  1. Acid house
    Joined: May 2011
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    Location: Manchester UK

    Acid house Junior Member

    So................

    I have a 1kw petrol (Gas) suitcase generator in 4 cycle flavour and a 650w variable speed power drill. Both 230 v AC.

    Motor up front out of the way..........variable speed switch butchered into a steering console and the motor slung under my little dingy with a prop stuck on the end.

    Forgive the tech speak for the none scientists amongst us.....:rolleyes:

    To be serious I have had a good look through a heap of past posts and it all gets a bit technical and to be a honest a bit anal with electrics.
    I understand it won’t be the ideal power choice for a three million tonne liner but for my lightweight day boat it is near perfect. It frees up the little available space, it’s a very powerful and torquey drill, it remains light without the need for heaps of DC batteries and it is the simplest thing to work on and service I can think of. Oh and with the Genny costing £80 and the drill a bargain (ex demo) at only £10 it’s got to make sense.
    Now discounting the risk of 230 AC running round your ears while you sit in water (things will be double insulated and earthed and RCD protected) can you see any practical problems?
    I am looking at around 4 knots in a 5 knot hull.
    Please try and steer clear of perpendicular coefficient molecular jelly sandwiches and comparative international spread sheet slide rules.............I am a bit thick.

    Iain
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Drills are not designed for continuous use. It may last you half an hour or so. A cheap initial investment is not always wise.
     
  3. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    CDK retired engineer

    The investment is minimal, so why not give it a try and discover that it was a lousy idea.

    A small generator gives you approx. 15% of the energy at the output socket and 85% as heat. The drill does much better, it produces 70% mechanical power and 30% heat loss, so the overall performance will be 10,5%....

    Any small outboard will do that job more efficiently and without the danger of electrocution.

    And Gonzo is wrong! The design life for a power drill is at least 10 hours.
     
  4. Acid house
    Joined: May 2011
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    Acid house Junior Member

    Good point Gonzo. With a DIY drill your probably right and even with the German beast I will be running at three quater power I would estimate at least a set of brushes if not a new drill motor a season but at $15 a year I can live with it. I may even splash out and invest in a washing machine motor in the future but this electrickery is a pain in the butt for a simple carpenter so simple is good.
    I remember talking to a power tool rep very many years ago and I asked him the difference in a DIY and Pro power tool. He explained the expected run time of each and it amazed me. That is until you realise a DIY tool sits in the shed for 99% of it's life until a shelf falls off the wall.
     
  5. Acid house
    Joined: May 2011
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    Location: Manchester UK

    Acid house Junior Member

    There you go again with the slide rule. :)
    No body 'put putting' round a pond actually cares about heat loss and
    percentages. What matters to me, like so many others is pouring a pint of juice in the top and being pushed along to the other bank for a cucumber sandwich and a glass of pomp.
    Please don't think I am ungreatfull though. I can sit my significant other next to the engine vent when the inevitable call "I'm cold" rears it's head.
     
  6. Jeremy Harris
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Jeremy Harris Senior Member

    I'm not going to piss you off with facts and science, but there are much cheaper and simpler ways of doing what you want (which is to make a series hybrid propulsion system but with no energy storage) than using potentially dodgy, definitely unreliable and probably noisy components like electric drills.

    Why not just buy a cheap (ebay?) mains electric motor and drive it from your genny? If you want variable speed, then rob the motor and controller from an old washing machine. At least that way you'd get a reliable and quiet motor.
     
  7. Acid house
    Joined: May 2011
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    Location: Manchester UK

    Acid house Junior Member

    Jeremy how could you possibly do that.
    I was thinking of keeping the hammer action engaged so it sounded butch.
    :eek: :)
     
  8. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

  9. Acid house
    Joined: May 2011
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    Acid house Junior Member

    What with my back........:rolleyes:

    You can't hold a champagne flute whilst rowing. Now with a punt you have half a chance.
     
  10. Acid house
    Joined: May 2011
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    Location: Manchester UK

    Acid house Junior Member

    What setting do I dial in for trolling. I was thinking of 40 degrees full spin for general cruising with perhaps synthetics Eco for berthing.

    Sorry shipmate but it made me laugh. Seriously though I wouldn't know how the he'll to wire such a thing. Every time I change the brushes on a washer the internal jigery pokery of the electronics baffles me.
     
  11. thudpucker
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    Location: Al.

    thudpucker Senior Member

    What if you did something really fance...quiet, removable.
    Put the Genset, Battery and controls in that boat out of the way.
    Adapt a trolling motor to the transom, like an I/O and steer with a cable or Garage door controller?

    You would never need that genset unless you really went out for a long time.
    Get trick n' Fancy.
    Set the Electronics to moniter the state of the Battery.
    At 10.9 V the "start Relay" automatically start the Genset.
    At 13.5 or so the Genset shuts off.

    Lot's of things you couuld do with a simple rig like that.
     
  12. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I figure that
    the motor will overheat
    the brushes and commutator wear out.
    the gears break, usually a very small surface area where the teeth mesh.
    the bearings wear out., even sealed the oil is not pressurized and refreshed.

    those sealed bearings, the seals fail and the oil-grease spins out of the bearing. The bronze sleeve bush bearings freeze up eventually.

    the gears are usually in a grease pocket, the grease gets hot and liquifies somewhat to help lubricate but it also is not meant for continuous run time. So if you take old drills apart you find the grease is pretty stiff and dried out. Really grease is just oil and soap base combination. Use a synthetic lithium grease. Lube all the bushes with synthetic oil.
     
  13. MengWalton
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Location: United Kingdom

    MengWalton Junior Member

    Give it a go mate, although find a washer motor (or a RC '850' size Motor 12-24v but v v good, reliable and powerfull) , get some form of speed cont. sorted pritty easy to sort, whack a prop on the end youve got the most expensive bit the genny, give it a go, let me know how you get on i have a couple of gennys sat around doing nothing.......

    John
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Marine engineer Officer 'BRITISH' Merchant navy (Meng)
     
  14. Rick Tyler
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Rick Tyler Defenstrator in chief

    Leave your car on the shore with the engine running and an AC inverter attached. Buy one of the new 150 fathom ultra-lightweight carbon fiber wrapped floating extension cords and run it from your boat to the AC inverter. Instead of a drill motor (too slow) use a 1-1/2 horsepower router (I recommend the Porter Cable 690) through a flexible shaft to a 2" plastic hair bow. Running at 22,000 rpm this should provide more than enough thrust for you to explore every nook and cranny of your local pond for just a few pennies per hour! Let us know how it works.
     

  15. Chase_B
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Chase_B Junior Member

    I say get a giant squirel cage ,..put the meanest dog you can find in it that hate's revenue officials ,.and dangle the tax man in front of the squirel cage,..now with a belt reduction system,..connect it to a manifold that you can connect a pina colata maker ,..ice maker and fan with a waterfall cooling system in front of it ,.then a gear box to drive your propeller,.. if your crafty ..you can connect a cam onto the final drive with a rod to a hammock so you will be gently rocked to the sound of the dog barking,..the tax man screaming,..the fan blowing and the pinacolata machine churnin :) a nice peaceful afternoon on the water with a lady friend ha ha
     
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