Yanmar - Dosan or Sole Diesel?

Discussion in 'Diesel Engines' started by yodani, Aug 12, 2014.

?

Most reliable heavy duty engine in 180-240hp range

  1. Dosan

    1 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. Yanmar

    3 vote(s)
    75.0%
  3. Sole Diesel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. yodani
    Joined: Nov 2010
    Posts: 190
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    Location: Danube Delta

    yodani Senior Member

    Hi,

    I am repowering a couple of river tugs and my options in the 180-240hp are:
    Dosan, Yanmar and Sole Diesel.

    The Dosan is based on MAN and it seems to be reliable but have no feedback on them, also is the cheapest of them all.

    Yanmar is well known and one of my favourites due to previous experience with small engines from them but I have no clue how their large comercial ones behave.

    Sole Diesel is based on Deutz and is not certified from what I know. There are some repowered tugs running them here with success .

    Would like to know what would be the most reliable, long lasting, serviceble and economical. What model to chose in this powe range?

    Thanks for your feedback in advance.

    Cheers,

    Daniel
     
  2. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    All 3 are excellent , price and availability of parts would hold the key.

    Figure out a parts list for eating a valve ,

    call each engine provider and find out the cost in cash and time to have the parts at your door.

    Price contents and cost of full rebuild KIT.
     
  3. yodani
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: Danube Delta

    yodani Senior Member

    I have decided to go for Dosan but am considering Scania for their new 6 cylinder common rail. Any thougts on that?

    Will do what you sugested and ask for parts.
     
  4. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Scania for their new 6 cylinder common rail. Any thougts on that?


    Common rail engines do fine, but the price is a hugely complicated and hugely expensive electronic control box.

    The electric feed must be first class and a lightning system would be a big help.

    These also require VERY clean fuel, , so a fuel tank can not just be a metal box of fuel.

    A sump must be included in the so all water can be removed daily.

    And a good set of filters that can be switched underway is good.

    Best practice is a day tank that gets fuel from a filter system that has an Alpha Laval or similar centrifugal unit.
     
  5. yodani
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: Danube Delta

    yodani Senior Member

    Thanks Fast Fred,

    I know the common rails are more complex and the fuel issue is a serious problem. With about 1000$ you can invest in a fuel polishing /filtering system that will do the job. We are using day tanks anyway so pre-filtration can be done before pumping.

    I was also suggested that Cummins has a grea engine but not in my power range.

    In the end my choices are -

    Cummins QSL 9 - http://cumminsengines.com/brochure-download.aspx?brochureid=123

    Scania DI13 080M - http://scania.com/_system/img/doc/engines/m/DI13080M_184kW.pdf

    Dosan L136TI - http://www.watermota.ro/pdfs/produs244.pdf


    All these are TIER II that is required here in the EU.

    Would I see a fuel economy with the common rails? What would be the percentage of that compared with the mechanical engine?

    The huge electronic box is not bothering me too much as we are in fresh water and it seems to be reliable. I could live with it if there was a substantial fuel saving.

    Cheers,

    Daniel
     
  6. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: Roaring Forties

    JosephT Senior Member

    Have you considered a Perkins diesel? Just went around the world with one and it held up well. Servicing the fuel, filters, etc. was not difficult. A big maintainability factor is the accessibility around the engine bay. Provided you can easily reach the filters, dip stick, belts, sump, etc. you can easily maintain them. They have quite a range of horsepower to pick from.

    Ref: http://www.perkins.com/marineproducts
     
  7. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Yodani

    I have QSM11s and wouldn't trade them for anything...design has been around for 35 years however they are not common rail however the new ones are Tier 2.

    Was in Florida this winter and ran across a sport fish guy,had the 9s and was at about 12k hours,zero problems at all. I think he replaced the after coolers and that was it.

    He told me he thought the 9's were the 11s with a smaller bore,new head,and new injection but I never researched it.
     
  8. yodani
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: Danube Delta

    yodani Senior Member

    Perkins seems to be ok but the consumption is a bit high compared with the competition. I have never seen one of the commercial range in a boat. I have a boat with a Volvo Penta D2-55 based on Perkins and I am happy with it till now just having 1600h on it.

    Thank you Vest for the info a bout the Cummins, it seems to be a reliable engine from what I have seen till now. I have no clue what they sell for but will ask for a quote to make a comparison.

    Fuel economy is great if you read the chart - http://www.sbmar.com/Engines/PDF/QSL Curves/QSL9 330 HO- Jan 07.pdf

    Can you use these engines at idle - 1000 RPM for a long time? At that speed I would get 11.5 liters/hour and I would be a happy man... but all comes to a price.

    Cheers,
    Daniel
     
  9. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Most commercial boats power so at cruise the engine is at least 70% of full rated load and perhaps as high as 90% of full rated load.

    Running an engine at idle at normal cruise speed underway means you have an engine 2 or 3 times as large as required.

    Diesels use the LEAST fuel when well loaded.

    In a lake where wave loads may not be high the higher loading should be preferred.

    Underloading an engine for a long period shortens its running life a great deal.

    How much power do you plan on at normal cruise?
     
  10. yodani
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: Danube Delta

    yodani Senior Member

    I have calculated about 80hp at cruise but i would realy needa bollard pull calculator to determine what is optimal. Till now i did not find someone that can calculate that for my setup.

    I have heard many theories about running diesels at low power, generators are an example - 1500rpm for 30.000h .
     
  11. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    I run my twin 640hp at less than 1000 rpm for 95% of the time,and open them up (as I can and have the space to) to 20-25 knots for a couple minutes every hour-been doing this for years and all is good.
    Had the engines scoped last year and were clean inside.

    However if you are using 80 hp continuous in a speed limited vessel such as your tugs...I'd highly suggest looking for a much smaller/cheaper engine and driveline.
    Lots of choices out there in that range.
     
  12. yodani
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: Danube Delta

    yodani Senior Member

  13. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    A very rough rule of thumb is with a good prop 1 HP will produce about 20 lbs of thrust.

    80 hp , 4 gal per hour perhaps 1600 lbs of push.

    Bollard pull is usually measured at zero speed , not what you will be doing often.

    Really large prop, slow shaft speed 500 RPM or so , perhaps 22 lbs per hp.
     
  14. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    BTW I'm not so sure that Doosan is MAN based,I looked briefly online and the medium and low speed engines are in cooperation with MAN.

    But if it's cheapest and fits your needs,enjoy!
     

  15. aussietrev
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 7
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    Location: australia

    aussietrev Junior Member

    I have experience with the Doosan L126THI, and consider it a really good engine. Its manners, power and running qualities are really good, but parts is a bugbear in Australia. The dealer here, had one in a boat, had trouble with parts from overseas (no dealer here at the time) and so started the dealership. He now has 20+ in his own fleet, no doubt with a percentage of the reason being buying price. But as a 25 year Diesel Fitter , I wouldn't hesitate with them.
     
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