Yacht Designers-required for a well established shipyard in the U.A.E

Discussion in 'Services & Employment' started by Recruitme, Jul 5, 2008.

  1. aegir
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 7
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    Location: UK

    aegir British Anzani

    Employment Business

    Daniel Rogers was working as a self employed contractor for myself to X-Raptor in Sweden.
    During the first month he was provided with hotel accommodation and then his own appartment.
    Without contacting either myself or X-Raptor beforehand, he rejected the appartment and returned to the hotel, billing to X-Raptor.
    He later that week mentioned to me that he had returned to the hotel, and I said it needed to be cleared up with Pierre of X-Raptor..
    An alternative ‘summer-house’ was then provided for him.
    He worked a full month, and in advance agreed to work the second following month.
    The ‘summer-house’ was paid for, by X-Raptor, in advance upon this agreement.
    Within the first week of the following month he walked out without notice.

    Upon his departure X-Raptor contacted me claiming un-paid bills, by Daniel, for food, laundry, his un-authorised stay at the hotel, his paid in advance month at the summer-house and a 15,000 (Swedish Kroner) cash advance.

    As soon as I realised there may be a problem I contacted a UK solicitor for advice.
    He suggested I go through the Swedish legal system as he thought that took precedence.
    I thus contacted "Gothia legal services and debt collection" and asked them to help with sorting this matter out.
    I asked Daniel for the details of both the hotel and summer-house, which he claimed he had.
    I gave him the details of Gothia to maintain transparency.
    He contacted Gothia, who explained the above, and he agreed to send the details.

    Due to this being a debt collection matter in Sweden, against X-Raptor also, Pierre for legal reasons did not provide the information.
    Daniel stated he had all the details and was the only one that could bring this to a close.

    Nothing arrived, and after his call to Gothia and subsequent emails to me, Gothia adviced me to have no further contact with him until his solicitor contacted me.

    After several months a Solicitor working for Daniel diid get in touch.
    I contacted him immediately whereby I agreed to pay the money owed into a ‘holding’ account, of the solicitor's choice, whereupon Daniel would provide the missing information.
    Daniel rejected his solicitors advice and started a ‘county court Claim’ the following day instead.

    I wanted to establish the exact details and monies owed and then the correct amount could be transfered.

    Daniel admitted to both an un-authorised stay at the hotel and having all the contact information (his solicitor had also said he has seen the hotel contact details)

    Instead of court action Daniel was adviced to go to arbitration, to which I agreed.
    The arbitrator convinced Daniel that the logical thing to do was to send the missing information (clearing any possible future problems with the Swedish side of the problem) and I would pay the delayed money in full.

    Unfortunately, both of us were in the right and wrong, but it did take the correct legal process to resolve.
    Being the "Man in the middle" isn't as simple as most people would believe.

    As a footnote:
    Pierre and X-raptor were made Bankrupt by the Swedish Government.
    By all accounts Danny was a very good worker.
    "British Anzani" is a trademark of Anzani ltd. registered at Companies House.
     
  2. the1much
    Joined: Jul 2007
    Posts: 3,897
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    Location: maine

    the1much hippie dreams

    well,,i dont have ANYTHING to say about you two's "situation,,,,i aint got the brains to be a judge ;),,,,but what i CAN say is......aegir's response is what a professional response should look like! ,,you see there was PLENTY of room for him to start an argument or to "mouth off",,but his response had NONE of that.
    this is NOT saying i "agree" or im on "his side",,,but the RESPONSE STRUCTURE is in a professional manner,,,,Thank- You for showing "how its done"
     
  3. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 6,823
    Likes: 120, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1882
    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    The style of writing is not "western" and would NOT be an Arab as that sort of stuff would be delegated to an employee and if Indian or from thereabouts, fraught with issues and concerns for reliability and future prospects.... The biggest issue is the "free" email address for a professional business?
     
  4. the1much
    Joined: Jul 2007
    Posts: 3,897
    Likes: 44, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 696
    Location: maine

    the1much hippie dreams

  5. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 6,823
    Likes: 120, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1882
    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    Hey Jim, Who was that young guy who had pics of drawings and fantastic furniture he had made? that job would suit him right down to the ground - He is made for that job I reckon..... Chris? something?
     
  6. the1much
    Joined: Jul 2007
    Posts: 3,897
    Likes: 44, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 696
    Location: maine

    the1much hippie dreams

    lemme lookie,,hehe ;)
     
  7. the1much
    Joined: Jul 2007
    Posts: 3,897
    Likes: 44, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 696
    Location: maine

    the1much hippie dreams

    haha,,,cant remember,,we need ta ask longerz,,or landyz,,i think 1 of them thought that was a cool desk too,,,
     
  8. Daniel Rogers
    Joined: Jul 2004
    Posts: 10
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    Location: HOLLAND

    Daniel Rogers Junior Member

    I feel I need to reply to Mr Bromley's last post and correct some of the very misleading facts.
    1) At no time did I Check in to any Hotel on my own accord!, all bookings and accommodation was arranged By Pierre Holgersson of X-Raptor. ( I'm pretty sure it would be impossible to check into any hotel and tell them to invoice another person/company without the hotel first contacting the said people/company!!
    2) The one and only reason for walking out was simple NO one had paid me!! and with many phone calls to Mr Bromley and face to face talks with Mr.Holgersson there was no forseeable payment coming my way. Either party could have paid me even part of my wage to show some good faith.
    3) There was N0 Laundry NO food and NO unauthorised stay at ANY hotel (or any other accommodation) and there's was definatly NO 15,000 swedish Kroner cash advance! These were all allegations made by Pierre Holgersson the hotel ones made whilst I was still there working and the others after I quit!
    4) I contacted Gothia immediately who told me that the case was none of my concern as it was Mr Bromley's case against Mr Holgersson and that Mr Bromley had'nt even signed the contract for them to take the case on yet. They also told me that in no way would it help me get the monies owed to me and that I would have to sue Mr Bromley.
    5)My Solicitor wrote to Mr Bromley asking for payment with in 14 days, At NO point was my solicitor contacted with this so called offer for payment into holding account, So I never rejected any offer!!! My Solicitor had all the relevant paperwork and was in sole charge of the case. When no payment was made to myself, My solicitor advised me to go to small claims court.
    6) I've never admitted to an unauthorised stay at the hotel as it was a total lie made up by Mr Holgersson.
    7)My Solicitor had all the relevant paperwork from, including a letter from the hotel stating that there was no unauthorised stay,and no laundrey/food etc bills.
    8)I was contacted by the courts asking if I wanted to try the new Arbitration service before they made a court date.I said I was willing to try anything to try and get the money owed to me. They Didnt have to convince me to do anything!!! I took the courts and my solicitors advice throughout.
    9) Mr Bromley was told in no uncertain terms that he was in the wrong and that a court date would be set and he would most certainly loose as there was absolutely NO evidence from his part to collaborate his story and that of the so called unauthorised hotel stay/Laundry/food/ bills etc etc. and so incurring more court costs etc etc.

    I was at NO time in the WRONG!!!!! I did the hours and job I was employed to do, I expect to be paid for it as anyone else would be.
    the above is only the bare facts if anyone could have heard the many phone calls/lies and promises that came from both Mr Bromley and Mr Holgersson they would understand my position.

    The Simple facts were that Mr Holgersson made the stories up to get out of paying Mr Bromley. He was on the verge of bankruptcy.
    And as Mr Bromley wasnt getting paid neither would I.
    At any time Mr Bromley could have taken the short trip from Skagen/Denmark to Gothenburg/Sweden (a few hours by ferry) and tried to sought out the situation whilst I was there like any good/normal agent would have.
    And what he should have also done was that as soon as the allegations were made By Pierre, he should have asked him for the proof/invoice/information regarding the situation.

    These are the true facts of this case!!!! and I strongly believe that if I hadnt gone through the courts I would have never seen my money at all.
     
  9. aegir
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 7
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    Location: UK

    aegir British Anzani

    “A recruiter is, by definition, in the difficult position of having responsibilities to both the person he recruits and the client he recruits for.

    In the difficult situation that Mr. Rogers has raised in this forum, I had responsibilities both to the end-client (X-raptor) and to Daniel Rogers himself.

    When an end-client makes allegations against an employee, it is the recruiter’s professional obligation to take those allegations seriously and try to make sense of them in the most transparent way possible.

    It’s clear that the situation was complicated by the fact that X-raptor were heading to receivership and this may well have been the motivation behind the allegations.

    Ultimately, the end responsibility to pay Mr. Rogers monies for work done was mine and after a process of arbitration, I discharged that obligation. X-raptor’s responsibility to pay me, on the other hand, ended with their bankruptcy - leaving me out of pocket.

    I sincerely respect the depth of feeling that Mr. Rogers has about this whole situation, and would like to offer sincere apologise for any errors of judgement or conduct on my part.

    I also accept the feedback (some positive and some critical but constructive) that has emerged in this thread and I thank you for giving it, however difficult it is to hear.

    It is very easy for us to judge people online from a single exchange. I have many happy clients from many successful contracts where things haven’t run into these kinds of difficulties. I’m sure the same is true for Mr. Rogers and I wish him every success in the future.”
     
  10. oceanreef
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 13
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: australasia

    oceanreef Junior Member

    Jobs in UAE

    Sounds like the company is Riviera Boats in Hamriya Free zone. Just release a 55' (not that good) and working on a 90+' If I remember only 1 NZ expat (designer) there all rest Sub Continent owned by Arabs. Good Luck.
     
  11. lazeyjack

    lazeyjack Guest

    Danny you are British? how did you get this person into court? and where
    i got cheated of 17,000 pounds one way or other there, and I am trying to find a way to recover
    I asked a lawyer in that country to write a ltter to the entity concerned and they wanted 2000 pounds!! for this service and to get to court and out again would gobble that 17000
    Any suggestions?
    oh pardon, I see you did not take him to court, and he paid you, but still any suggestions from anybody in UK would be of assistance
     

  12. Daniel Rogers
    Joined: Jul 2004
    Posts: 10
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: HOLLAND

    Daniel Rogers Junior Member

    Hi Lazyjack,
    Yes I'm English and that sounds bloody steep for writing a letter! I thought it would be more like around 200 pounds. I used what they call a small claims court, I'm a little unsure what the limit is on claims though,can't remember if its under 5000 or 15000. You can do it all by your self online and costs around 200/300 which you then put on your claim also..so they pay, if you win of course. check out
    http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

    It took me a while to fathom it all out, but once I read through it and worked out what process suited me, it was all very simple.

    iF this does'nt work its a bit of a tuff decision to make really on wether to pay out more to a lawyer and risk not getting anything back, so losing out on more than your original 17,000, or just saying sod it. I'm sure you could find someone cheaper to write a few letters to test the water and see how strong your case is. Personally if I had the money I would drag there arse's through the courts till the bitter end! and make there life hell as much as possible. (if of course your in the right which I;m sure you are) There's nothing pisses me off than companies /people not paying up for work done, and unfortunaly if the people who are getting knocked just write it off, these companies realise they can get away with it so just carry on and rip the next guy off.

    Where are you in the world now?
    let me know how you get on, maybe I can find you a lawyer cheaper than your quote if you need one, Don't give up!!! thats a bloody lot of money owed to you..a lot more than I was owed!!!

    Good luck
     
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