Wooden boatbuilding in Spain (Galicia)

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by gonzo, Jul 23, 2017.

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  1. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Just false, you said in post #8 ‘‘is not so’’ and you didn't say there ‘‘not as easy as Gonzo indicated’’
    False, Spain has to, and does follow, the above posted EU Directives, as is spelled out in post #10 already.

    And I've also noticed you didn't post anything yet to back up the nonsense you posted here about Spanish rules.
    You're just twisting and turning here, as usually, the matter at hand, that you argued about in post #8, is about boats ‘‘built for own use’’ which can be freely sold within the EU after 5 years of use when built for own use in the EU, which again is spelled out in the above post #10 already.

    So the matter at hand ‘‘built for own use’’ has nothing to do with the construction of pleasure boats in Spain in general on any yard to be sold after several years of use, as in your above posted nonsense, in regard to the subject of course, the above quote is only a deplorable attempt to twist and turn this ‘‘built for own use’’ subject.
    Just nonsense, as usual, as nowhere in your 4,132 posts on these forums is any evidence that backs up your void claim here of having any acquaintance of Spanish regulations on shipbuilding at all.
    You argued here based on so called Spanish regulations that you made up in your mind, and of which you didn't post any on these forums so far, so put evidence to the post #8 claim ‘‘is not so’’ or just shut up. Thank you my friend.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  2. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    No comment.
    I will continue to write in this forum all the comments that I deem appropriate.
     
  3. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Of course TANSL was going to play innocent, and didn't respond at all to the fact that he recently made a big issue of the same matter (see post #11), of which he was brought up to date there by Unik with all the relevant info.

    And like in the post #11 links and quotes, he didn't put up here any of the so called "Spanish rules", as they don't exist at all in any other form then in all EU member states, which are linked in post #10.

    Good luck my friend !
     
  4. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I would really like Gillermo Gefael to add some information here. He is a great proponent of traditional spanish boatbuilding, particularly by amateurs. He has a project to use traditional designs adapted for modern materials.
     
  5. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    @Angélique, what daring is ignorance!
    @Gonzo, you're quite right, Guillermo is an authority on the matter. I would like him to be able to intervene in this discussion. If he says that I have said something wrong, I will gladly acknowledge it. I am delighted that someone, who knows the subject, can judge and comment what I have written. Other comments, the truth, I care very little.
    If any reader wanted to get into the maze of building a boat for himself in Spain, I would like him to have truthful information, not visceral discussions of people who do not know the Spanish reality.
     
  6. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Just a foolish cry, as you can't relate it to any specific content, as is usually the case with my good friend here . . ;)
     
  7. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Good point Gonzo, so I looked at Guillermo's website for info . . :cool:


    ‘‘ - 3. - REGISTERING/SAILING A RECREATIONAL BOAT IN SPAIN

    In Gestenaval know how important is your pleasure boat and that is why we have various services to either own construction or acquired in Spain or abroad, you can enjoy it in the required safety conditions and with all the documentation. Request a quote without obligation. We will be happy to help. -
    ’’
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  8. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

  9. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Gonzo many thanks for the book, it was interesting.

    Angélique, TANSL please hold your horses, you are talking about two different things and you are both right. Yes, Spain complies with EU legislation and one can build a boat there as an amateur and sell it after 5 years. No it is not an easy process like in some other countries of the EU. This has nothing to do with EU legislation on boat construction, it has everything to do with Spains legislation about national registration. In order to be able to register a boat under the spanish flag it either has to have a CE mark (wich can be obtained afterwards) or be built following the spanish national rules. This demands a project signed by an authorized naval arhitect (authorized in Spain that is, not elsewhere) approval from the naval authority to build and so on until the final inspection wich grants you the flag certificate. And in Spain almost everything that floats needs to be registered.

    Please understand that under EU legislation national registration is not harmonized and a boats status is different in every country. In some countries boats are considered real estate and registered in a cadastre, in other countries vehicles and registered in a special vehicles register. Some countries have both systems some hybrid systems and in some countries residents do not need registration at all as long as they stay in national waters. The registration documentation is also different, some prove ownership, other only prove the boats flag but not ownership. Some are issued by private clubs and some by national authorities and some by a court of law.

    All of this is simmilar to taxation. In some countries residents have to pay an annual tax per boat according to different parameters (lenght, displacement, motor power, etc.). In other countries boat taxation is unknown. Some countries apply this tax to all residents regardless of nationality, and other countries only to citizens. Some enforce the rules by the book and others have grey areas to be exploited. This is all legal under EU law and has nothing to do with VAT, wich is another issue alltogheter. Some countries still don't have VAT paid certificates and one has to have the original invoice to prove this. So if you build a boat in such a country you have to keep (and pass on to new owner) all the building materials invoices, and have homebuild stated in the boats documents.

    All of the above has had the effect that flags of courtesy have become common in the leisure boating scene of some EU countries wich have stringent registration or taxation rules.
     
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  10. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

  11. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Good advice Rumars, followed by a comprehensive and well-founded substantiation regarding the ‘‘Boat built for own use in the EU’’ subject discussed here, excellent post, many thanks ! - :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  12. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    So TANSL not a villain, after all ? :)
     
  13. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I always try to be honest and polite. I answer on the topics of which I think I know something. Sometimes I'm wrong, like everyone else, but I have no problem recognizing it when someone shows me that I was wrong. I try to unmask those who, based on the anonymity of the network, with the help of Wikipedia and Google, try to show us that they know what they do not know. If that is being a villain then, yes, I am a great villain.
    Going back to the subject of amateur construction in Spain. Here each one can build his boat, however he pleases, but if he wants to take to the water and sail, he must comply with certain rules and ask for a series of permits. And it can not be sold until after 5 years; if, afterwards, you want to sell the regulation changes and it hardens. Rumars has explained it very well. All this is perfectly regulated, clarified and is public information. The fact that there are companies that offer, among their services, the advice on this matter explains in and of itself that it is not a simple matter within the reach of anyone. The reality is that amateur construction in Spain, in practice, does not exist.
    In a country with the number of km of coast that has Spain, you can count on the fingers of the hand (this is a Spanish expression, does not mean that there are less than 10) the boats constructed by amateurs. The pleasure boat, of whatever size and type, is considered as a luxury item, with a very high VAT, the Department of Finance obliges to pay annual fees to the owners of these boats, there are very few Marinas for public use, most are only for members, private clubs very expensive and it is very difficult to become a partner of one of them, because there are few free places. Sometimes they allow you to be a partner if you have previously signed a document waiving a berth at their marina. These high prices would justify the fact that the amateur construction was a flourishing "business". It is not the case. Many people in my country think that there are people trying to build boats and the Administration trying nobody build them.
     
  14. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member


  15. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Thanks Gonzo for your kind and respectful tone.
    I do not doubt that in very specific areas of Galicia it is true what you say, but in general, in Spain, we have the problem that I describe. And let's face it, I have not talked about prices of the public marinas, indeed, I have never said that they are very expensive. I do not know them.
    I am not very convinced that a person, from Milwaukee, consulting on the internet, can have better information than me about my country, the area where I live and that I know. I can only express my admiration and bewilderment.
    In any case, if you are interested in the subject, you can open a new thread to talk about prices of marinas in Galicia, or in Spain. Do not divert attention from the comment made by the OP on amateur construction in this country. The OP will thank you for sure :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
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