wood

hello all this is my first posting and im sure you all can help. i am replacing the floor of my boat and wanted to know if i could use pressure treated plywood instead of marine grade plywood if im gonna put epoxy over it??and im also gonna make new dash panels and was wondering what kinda wood i could use for that is oak or maple ok??thanks

 

It's my guess that epoxy won't stick to pressure treated ply. I'd be more concerned with the chemicals it'll give off even if incapsulated in epoxy. For the extra $20 get the marine ply. If you go with pressure treated you'll have to do a "peel test" to see if your resins will stick to it.

Just about any hardwood will work on your internal furnishings it's a matter of taste. My personal preference is for black cherry.

 

great thanks would reg. plywood work with epoxy the problem is im having a hard time getting marine plywood

 

PT Plywood

There's a professional Opinion on this from the Plywood Manufacturers:
http://www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/boatbuilding-plywood.html discusses this.

Quote: The treated plywood developed bond strengths similar to the untreated plywood.

One experience: I added a new 3/4 inch PT Plywood outer transom on my inboard Cuddy Cabin boat. Based on searching the web then, I scrubbed both sides well with detergent, and dried it for a week in the shade and 3 days in the sun. It soaked up West System Epoxy well. I did the edges carefully 3 times, put a layer of glass over it all, faired it in and it's solid 5 years later.

Just one opinion...

 

Where abouts are you in NY Dan? The kit for our trawler is being cut in Saranac NY by Rainbow Boatworks. Contact Eric and he can help you out.

Rainbow Boat Works
Ph: 518-293-1461
fax 775-269-0944 27 Ryan RoadSaranac, NY 12981

 

Barely a Start...

There's a start of a WIki page on Materials at:
http://www.boatdesign.net/wiki/MaterialsForBoatbuilding

This is NOT ready for primetime, just a start. Feel free to contribute. It does have links to the manufacturers info on using pressure-treated wood in boatbuilding, Marine Plywood etc....

 

great thanks guys lets keep our fingers crossed and sea tow on hold and give it a try

 

I've spent hours on the phone & internet researching this issue.
PT woods are available with different types treatments. The most common is ACQ (Home Depot type). The problem is not the chems as far as adhesion goes, nor does it outgas. The problem is.... PARIFFIN, added when the pressure is applied. Wax is not a good thing!
I found NO one that would say any of their products would adhere to "fresh" PT wood. Some said "probably", IF...1. wood was exposed to weather for at least 1 yr. 2. wood was roughened by sand blast, wire abrate. 3, wood is washed with naptha, white gas or anything that desolves pariffin. 4. A combination of any of the above.
I just did some destructive tests on PT glued with TiteBond glue. Most joints failed miserably. These joints were made on fresh PT wood that had not had any of the above preperations.
No one is doing any R&D to find a product that will work, and no one is testing current products. You are on your own here. 5 epoxy makers would not even say "maybe" to me.
ACQ eats aluminium, electroplated steel and painted steel AND fasteners made of these metals. Hot Dipped Galvinized & stainless steel are OK. I had to go back & redo ALL my joints and sheeting with SS screws. HDGscrews are all but extinct.
I would use marine ply and epoxy thinned to a penetrating viscosity. If you do a honest (labor includeed) cost comparrison, it won't be much more than ACQ PT woods or special ordered other treated woods. Sorry for the bad news. Think of me, with a plywood barge framed & sheeted with ALL PT woods and no way to tape the joints. Boo-hoo

 

The problem with most commercially available PT is the condition of the product when you by it. The moisture content (from the chemical treatment) is very high, way too high for epoxy to adhere properly (and most other adhesives). You can dry it, but this takes quite a while (months) and then you have the wax issue as mention, which can be abated (sanded) or chemically removed. Most of the PT products found in Lowes?depot are really crappy pieces of material. Very fast growth lumber, hybrids, poor panel construction and quality (in plywood), etc. all conspire against the use of construction grade PT products. PT marine grades are available, though they cost considerably more.

Oak and maple will make a fine dash board, mahogany and teak are traditional. Coat them well and keep the coatings in good order and you'll have few troubles.

If you're going to epoxy the soles (floors) of your boat then you can likely get away with a good quality of construction grade plywood, rather then marine grade. Make sure you coat every side, especially the edges and fastener holes, including any cut outs, notches, etc. with CPES or other penetrating epoxy, thinned lamination epoxy or traditional epoxy bonded sheathing. This coating is the key. If any area (even a little screw hole) is left uncoated then you'll eventually have problems. Coat all surfaces until it shines all over (usually three coats on Douglas fur plywood), with special attention any end grains.

 

ok so whats the difference between epoxy,resin and fiberglas????????????i think i bite off more then i can chew

 

Fiberglass, Kevlar, carbon fiber, are "cloths", like Cotton, wool, polyester are. we wearthe last 3, BUT, we could saturate them with resins (epoxy, polyester and others). Fiberglass cloth is saturated with epoxy for strength and water proofing. Woods can also be coated (or if thin enough), penetrated.
This is a REAL simple example. It is fairly complicated for some applications. It can be simple for basic gluing & coating. Epoxy is used by beginners.
Uou're not in over your head. There are many ways to learn the basics. If you can post here you can use a search engine to dtart the learning curve.

 

Much information can be found on this site in regard to repairs just like yours. It's a subject that has had repeated coverage. Epoxy, polyester and vinylester resin use, plus the reinforcements we use in these resins, such as different filler materials, fabric choices and applications, etc. all also have been discussed many times. Use the search tool at the top of the page and read up on sole replacement, with specific procedures as well as product uses for epoxy and their related subjects (techniques, applications, etc.).

 

Info??

You might want to look at:
http://www.boatdesigns.com/departments.asp?dept=3 and look thru the glass and epoxy sections etc. And,
http://www.boatdesigns.com/prodinfo.asp?number=12-430
is a book that would pay for itself fast if you are starting from the beginning....

 

Hello Capn' Dan:

Par always has good advice. Personally, I don't like pressure treated plywood. The reason that is so "wet", as Par discribes, is that the wood is often treated hours (not weeks or months) before being transported to your local warehouse (Been a trucker for many years and I've hauled this crap many times). The stuff is junk as far as boat building is concerned... but there are a couple people that will argue. I agree with Par.

As far as where to get your wood from, I get my marine grade ply from Boulter... www.boulterplywood.com

Below are a couple of other links you might be interested in.

CPES : Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer > www.rotdoctor.com
Boat building supplies > www.jamestowndistributors.com
Drill bits & Countersinks > www.wlfuller.com
Wooden Boat Publications > www.woodenboat.com
System Three Epoxies > http://www.systemthree.com/index_2.asp
Boating safty > http://www.boatsafe.com

At the System Three site you can download whats called "The Epoxy Book" which will give you much info about epoxy.

The CPES at the Rotdoctor site is the same as Smiths (it is Smiths... just a different name on the label). If you want more info about what it is and what it does... check out the site or check out this thread by Steve Smith himself...http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12061&page=2&highlight=steve smith
You'll more than likely have to wander through the thread to find his post but, it's worth reading.

By the way... what kind of boat do you have ? Got any pictures for us ? We all love pic's and enjoy seeing eachothers progress.

 

well i gotta say thanks for all the help i have already learned so much from this site the problem is that my boat is about a 2 hour drive from where i live and i only get to work on it on the weekends so i've just been reading all i can anyway thanks again..and by the way shes a 16ft 1990 larson senza
i will put up some pics when i figure that out