Wood as a Boatbuilding Material

I agree that building with lower quality materials is great for learning. For starters, making a wrong cut on a sheet of 3/8 plywood that sells for $9.00 at Home Depot is less painful than screwing up $120.00 worth of Bryunzeel. Also, there is a satisfaction in seeing what you built come to life that is very different from high scores in a video game.

 

Well Dave, I got to disagree on that. Many people build boats to make a living, not a statement. I think that if you visit any commercial yard that turns a profit, most employees have a similar attitude than at any other work place. Ultimately, only yards that make a profit stay in business. There is a niche for wooden boats built with old techniques. The buyers are similar to antique car collectors. They want to own something that doesn't get used every day. However, from the boatbuilding point of view, I think the techniques used in those reproduction are expensive, yield a product that is not particularly durable, and also need lots of mainteinance. The boats Oyster posted can be worked hard and stay together. I think they are better boats.

 

woodenboats

sorry gonzo,you have seen woodenboats more than 80 years
old and in this time first class...you have seen plastikboat over
50 years??????????????
regard's

 

Could you rephrase that? I'm not sure what is you are asking.

 

LOL

Gonzo,

Let me translate for you!

BEGIN TRANSLATION >>

You've seen wooden boats that are more than 80 years old and in first class condition but have you ever seen a 50 year old fiberglass boat?????

END TRANSLATION <<

 

There are lots of fiberglass boats built in the early 60's still around. They usually look rough, but many are serviceable. 80 year old boats are mostly restorations. Therefore they are not 80 but largely newer. For example, Oyster talks of a 40% planking replacement. It would surprise me if none of the frames was changed too. The hull was probably refastened too.

 

I have read all the posts and find that is does not make me thinkof which boat is better ..but makes me think of how technology has supassed the averidge person, an example of what I mean is for those of you who are old enuff to remember the old V8'S from thirty plus years ago will remember you couild take a box full of wrenches and have the whole motoer stripped apart in 2 days, or spend an afternoon changing out the carb , if the car didnt start there was only 3 things happing..no gas,spark or air , nowadays you cant do anything without a computer to tell which sencer has gone bad, and i dont find these car's tobe any more reliably than my 69 GTO.
My point is that I cant go into my yard and tap the resin/epoxy tree and let in drain like syrup, but i can cut down a tree and shape it to my likeing, I dont like being at the mercey of other people whrn it comes things such as my house,plumbing,electrical, automotive...etc...but whith my car i seem to have no choice these days I can either spend days and weeks studying all the new crap they put on or take it to the dealership where i wont even get a kiss or flowers when there done rapeing my wallet.

Bill gates maid a ton of money dumbing down and idiot proofing an area of technology that was better left to those who trained for it or our "basic" education system caught up to that level, you have no idae what it going on in the computer world...but i do and it scares the hell out of me...I will spare you the details but I will tell you this HP,IBM,MICROSOFT are working on the "TRUSTED COMPUTING PLATFORM" in a nut shell in the near furture ALL motherboars will come with a built in "security " chip, everythiing you do will be monitored...there will be internet check points to make sure you are who you say you are...if you doubt me I will provide all reference here for all to read.

My whole point is that I want to be in control of my stuff..not at the mercey of someone elses "wonder " product, so that is why I would choose wood, it may not be as good as fiberglass...but i dont know how to grow fiberglass

 

Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm new to all this, but my recent studying on the subject has me believing plywood boats, coated in fiberglass and epoxy are about the best boat building materials there is. The wood is completely encapsulated, and provided all penetrations are properly sealed with 5200 or some such goop, is impervious to water intrusion. Molds are eliminated, and "one-off" boats can be produced in virtually limitless shapes and sizes. Finally, the two biggest enemies of wood or fiberglass hulls, rot and blisters, are eliminated. Also, I've gathered these wood/epoxy hulls are lighter than pure wood or pure fiberglass? And supposed to be just as strong or stronger, and cheaper to build. Any thoughts?

 

Oddball:
The flat rate to completely rebuild a 2003 V8 is 18 hours. If it took you that much years ago, there is no difference. R&R a carburator pays 2.5 hours. Bill Gates didn't make any idiots; they were already like that. Technology changes and improves; it takes continuos effort to keep up. I spend an average of 25 hours a month studying and learning new things. Those too lazy to put the effort are left behind. Your 69 GTO would be leaking oil from the small two piece rear main seal after 50k miles. Also, the points had to be changed and adjusted regularly. A modern V8 needs the first tune up at 75k miles. They last three to four times longer, use less fuel and polute less too. The three important things in an engine: compression, spark and fuel are the same now as they have always been.
Corpus skipper:
wood epoxy boats have very long service lifes. They are light and stiff. However they cost more to build than a production fiberglass boat. There is more labor involved. They can rot and blister if improperly built; the same as a fiberglass or wood only boat. Proper construction is crucial regardless of materials.

 

Gonzo what 2003 V8 are you referring to? I am pretty damm sure your not talking about a " syncronized multi port injected" V8, The motor my wife has is a perfect example of the KISS principle (KEEP IT SIMPLE SILLY) it is an AMC 304CI (30 plus year old design) in a 95 grand cherokee, it is the same motor it was 30 years ago with some refinements and a TBI (throttle body injected) carburator, it has 170,000 miles on it and runs like a top, my wifes former car was a 94 olds cutlass with the 3100 V6 fuel injected, that piece of crap started cooking a quart of oil every 500 miles when it only had 40,000 miles on it, inturn it clogged up the EGR valve and the passedge into the plenium causing the car to run like crap!, OLDMOBILE offered to send me to a site where I could BUY!!! the information on what the problem was, as a result of that ...BS i will never buy another GM product..EVER!,I am not to lazy to keep up with things, but the above kind of crap is just a waste of my time..having to seach out design flaws on an over engineered piece of crap, there is an old saying "if it works...DONT FIX IT", The way the make the motors nowadays is ridiculus even if you want to spend the time to learn about them the amout of "specialized" tools you need is cost prohibative. I am all for new designs...but when the designs call for a plethra uf uneeded junk...thats when i get mad , a prime example is the "air pump" anyone know what an air pump does?..it pumps air into the exhaust to lower emissions...rubbish that does nothing but dilute the emissions so they will pass EPA standards, maybe they should design a better spark plug or a better filter so there is less or no more unburned gas getting out, they keep trying to fix the "SYMPTOM" and not the problem.

I will take the old design over the new...why.becuase i can fix it and I can tell what is wrong..if a new car breaks down you cant tell why...because the car is not talking to you..theres no dash display to show you the error code the ECM(electronic control module) is generating, If a sencor goes bad it sends false information to the ECM and inturn the ECM starts changing all the engine settings making the car run bad or not at all, now we have to pay $50 to the tow truck $75 to the mechanic for diagnosis and when the shop calls to tell you that the ECM is giving an ERROR CODE "34" which is the blah blah sencer that is most likley not the problem..something else has set that thing off and now we are in for shop time and $ while they try and find the problem, like I said before if my GTO didnt start..there where only 3 things it could be, i can live with the bug of the older designs becuasse i can fix them.

as for bill gates I never sid he made "dumb people" I said he "dumbed down " the software so the averidge person could use it, they have computer classes in high school now..but they just teach you how to "use" windows not how a compter works on the whole, I could go on for hours about computers...but i wont this is after all boat forum, if anyof you would like to argue..err I mean debate about computers feel free to e-mail [/RANT]

 

Oddball, I hate to tell you, but unless you've been doing some SERIOUS modifying, that Grand Cherokee has a Chrysler 318.

 

Gonzo, other than the obvious need for tight fitting panels ans thorough wetting out of the fiberglass, what other pitfalls might there be with the plywood/epoxy construction?

 

I stand corrected, chrysler bought AMC and I just assumed it was a 304, but my point is still valid the 318 has been around just as long

 

Oddball:
First I think this is a marine site, so automotive problems should go elsewhere. The 3100 is not a marine V8. Also, in spite of your preferences and lack of knowledge about modern engines, they are more efficient and reliable. There are considerable design differences between a '60s and a modern engine. Crankshaft, pistons, intakes, heads, oil pump, seal and gasket material, and electronic controls are some of the improvements. Also, yes I am referring to a MPI motor on the flat rates. I routinely remove, rebuild and install two motors in a week. Any reputable shop will do the same. I would prefer you keep your language polite. There is no need for your insults and crude language. I will discuss technology with adults. If this is a problem, there are chatrooms that accept that kind of behaviour.
Corpus Skipper:
I don't think building with plywood has pitfalls as much as limitations in shape. Strip planking can be lighter for two reasons: firstly, the amount of glue in plywood makes it about 40% heavier than solid wood, and secondly, round shapes are stiffer which makes possible lighter scantlings.

 

ok..i can see where this is going please point out my RUDE language and INSULTS...then we can move on