WishBone Sailing Rig

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Aug 17, 2003.

  1. yipster
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    yipster designer

    very good find Guilermo !
    informative and handy, thanks for sharing
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. brian eiland
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

  3. hk996
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    hk996 New Member

    Guilermo, how did you find that information? thanks for sharing it!
     
  4. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

  5. brian eiland
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Mast Aft Failure

    As I mentioned before I felt this discussion belong under the AftMast subect thread rather than here. But I felt I needed to defend the posting in both subject threads in case someone should not be aware of the other discussion

    As I wrote you in a private email, I also questioned the sanity of this gentleman, but that’s all another subject.

    When I was first made aware of his original website and his rig calculator, I was very surprised at the exact wording on his site that copied the wording right out of my website verbatim. Here is a gentleman who never once had contacted me about this subject he had such a great interest in, nor ask any permission of me, nor given any references on his site back to mine. I wrote him a letter about these matters, which he chose to ignore answering, and instead took down some of his web pages from his site.

    In that letter I also expressed some concerns about his interpretation of my design. I was particularly concerned about his lack of a resistance element to the forward force that will be generated by the upper aft facing jumper strut over which the masthead backstay passes. In contrast I have provided a triangulated (diamond) jumper strut arrangement to help counter this forward pressing force. I have also provided two additional backstays at this point to counter forestay loads.

    …photo of vessel under discussion: http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/6863/cat/500/ppuser/399

    In other words I was concerned about his variation of my design. But since he had chose not to communicate with me about my concerns, and since he had already built it, there was not much left to do but wish him the best. Maybe his mast section would stand up to the loads, but I seriously doubted it. I was also concerned about his disproportionably long, lower mast panel.

    Another of my concerns was his use of three headsails. To my way of thinking this placed the headsails too close together to be practical. We know from past cutter arrangements that should we have the headsail and the staysail too close to one another it became difficult to maintain the trim on both such that they were always fully engaged. Plus, it became more problematic in a tacking situation. And he obviously had not sailed enough to recognize the balance that can be had with a jib-mizzen combination.

    Your reference to the rig being replaced with a conventional one was rather brief, leaving the impression that this mast aft experiment was a total failure.

    I don’t think we can assume this just yet with the VERY limited information we have. All I see so far is a failure of a piece of ordinary rigging, “a Norseman backstay fitting failed, crystallized in the threads." That could happen with any rig. Certainly it appears to be a backstay component, and if he had only a single backstay with this 3-headsail arrangement that would be a real problem. But lets not condemn the mast aft concept in general based upon this flawed design experiment.

    And finally I might even have to give some credit to this fellow. At least he went out there AND DID IT, more than can be said for many dreamers
     
  6. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Greenway Wishbone Mast Rigs

    Just today there were some photos of the taller of these two rigs posted by Mike Johns at this other subject thread.
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showpost.php?p=146456&postcount=27

    ...short rig under sail (on this subject thread)
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showpost.php?p=110510&postcount=39

    A gentleman from Calif recently contacted me about his potential purchase of this taller rigged version. I put both gentlemen in touch with one another. We will see if we get future contributions from either of the two?

    Opps, turns out Mike did not post the photos but rather a reference to a 'for sale' listing. Since these can disappear in short order, I'll extract some of the photos and post them here.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Attached Files:

  8. yipster
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    yipster designer

    thanks for sharing and very interesting study, with such a rig and a heli who will suggest rainbow warior III may perhaps be a cat :p
     
  9. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

    mispost
     
  10. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

  11. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

  12. kevin murphy
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: Richmond, CA

    kevin murphy New Member

    where is this wishbone now? Marina Bay

    This wishbone design sailboat is now anchored at Marina Bay, in Richmond CA. It was not there in October, it has been there since I returned to Richmond a couple of weeks ago. I am a newbie to sailing, except for small boats on middle sized lakes in MN, so what do I know? But I saw this boat anchored at Marina Bay, and it is amazing. So I Googled "wishbone mast" (lucky guess) and ended up here.

    The boat is very racy looking, looks like a totally custom design to this untrained eye, and it looks like it is built for speed. Performance? I have no clue. But I'm happy to see it here, not as a sailor but as someone who appreciates good design. The boat is beautiful.

    I have no idea who owns it, but the Harbormaster at Marina Bay in Richmond CA could maybe help you out.

    Someone put some serious money into this boat, by all appearances, so if you are really interested in this design, a follow-up would probably be rewarding.
     
  13. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    New Owner Tall Rig Version

    There is a new owner of the tall rig version who only recently contacted me a few days ago (11/28/07). Hopefully he will visit this site and make some contributions to the discussion...I told him of this site
     
  14. multihullsailor
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: Cape Town

    multihullsailor Junior Member

    Brian,

    She was offered for sale recently on Yachtworld as a North Pacific 47 called "Relentless" lying outside of San Francisco, $ asking price equivalent of €47,000. I was / am interested in her, but never had any feedback from the broker and she is not offeed on Yachtworld any more. Have seven pictures from her, exterior and interior, if you are interested I could email them ;)

    Best regards from sunny Cape Town
    Roger
     

  15. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Hi Roger,
    She has been purchased by this gentleman:

    Hello Brian... My name is Art Lane. I recently purchased Relentless
    which is the tall mast version of your 47' wishbone design, a North
    Pacific 47. I live and sail around San Francisco Bay and will be
    moving myself and the boat to port Townsend, WA this
    Spring. Thank you for designing this fabulous craft. I am outfitting
    it as a durable cruiser. Can you provide info on the builder, specs,
    schema, history or specific wisdom? I'm particularly eager for a
    comparison to the short mast version. Strictly for your amusement
    I'll send you some photos of an over the mast flip tacking rig I
    designed and use routinely, based on the crab claw sail.
    Regards... Art


    I made him aware of this subject posting, and hopefully he will contribute later on. I also corrected his misinterpetation that I designed this vessel, but rather it was a gentleman who worked for Boeing Aircraft
     
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