WishBone Sailing Rig

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by brian eiland, Aug 17, 2003.

  1. ChiefOren
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Israel

    ChiefOren Junior Member

    Thoughts on the A-Frame

    As I am building a 50 George Buehler sailboat, I plan to incorporate the A-Frame concept with the Aft-Mast configuration. In this way, I can eliminate altogether the Main Sail, and instead incorporate 2 Gibs that will do the work. I may in the future add a mizzen, but at first I will try without. I am very interested in others that have tried the A-frame, and would also like to know what others think of the Aft-Mast.
    Thanks for the update.
     
  2. gar37bic
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    gar37bic Junior Member

    That is a strange boat - if nothing else, it seems to take 'windage' to new highs. :)
     
  3. gar37bic
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    gar37bic Junior Member

    Chief, I suggest you take a look at some of the pictures and specs of my boat - I've posted the link above but here is a link to the pictures: http://www.sail-works.com/KOLIKA/html/picture_gallery.html

    Here's a good picture of the rig. One thing I don't understand is why he left the bottom of the mainsail so high. It looks to me like I could get the foot of that sail another 'foot' or two longer/lower, improving the sail efficiency. But the builder did put some hardware at the front of the wheelhouse that sticks up a foot or so, so maybe that's why.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. ChiefOren
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    ChiefOren Junior Member

    I have seen this, and was very impressed. The difference though, is I wish to rake the mast forward as per the Aft-mast configuration, and use three stays, which will be used as two gibs and a permanent Storm Sail. I could then in the future also incorporate a ketch, but for starters, I could do without. Thank you for the link to your site. I had it on one of my earlier computers, but it went out with the hard disk that I had to replace. Could you give us some of your thoughts on the A-Frame, and how it worked out?
     
  5. gar37bic
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    gar37bic Junior Member

    I am reminded of an analysis by Navy scientitsts that I read long ago, about the chinese junks. One of the big differences that was noted was that where USN ships were built strong and stiff to resist the forces of nature, the junks were flexible and stretchy. This made them possibly less efficient, but more adaptable to extreme conditions - like a palm tree vs. a big oak.
     
  6. gar37bic
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    gar37bic Junior Member

    If you're talking to me, I am no expert, and haven't even sailed my boat yet - I'm still fixing it! So I can't say anything from my own point of view. But the original builder was happier with the overall results than even he anticipated.

    I did post a couple of items about the aerodynamics in post #150 a little while ago - you may not have seen it. But I will say that the masts indeed are very light - I think about 200 lbs. each even with the hardware. They have an airfoil shape with an internal cross-membrane - the cross section looks like a figure 8.

    I'm unfamiliar with the aft-mast thing you are talking about. How does that work? Is it akin to 'suicide doors' on the old cars?
     
  7. gar37bic
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    gar37bic Junior Member

    I should mention that the masts are over 52 feet long.
     
  8. ChiefOren
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    ChiefOren Junior Member

    To start, you could look at www.runningtideyachts.com to view the Aft-mast configuration. The Idea is to rake the mast forward about 10% and connect to it two Jibs, eliminating the Main Mast and Boom. I thought, gee, nice, but wouldn't it be more reliable with an A-Frame? So by combining the A-Frame in an Aft-Mast configuration should actually bring a lot of benefits.
     
  9. ChiefOren
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    ChiefOren Junior Member

    Also, with the Aft-mast rigging, the sails would not overlap the masts like what we see in the above picture that you sent. This would allow for closer hauling of the sails, maybe even using sail tracks on the deck for sharper tracking.
     
  10. TTS
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    TTS Senior Member

    I know that htis is an old thread, but my question about this is, does anyone know what the platform that this rig is on? IE, hulls and are they planing hulls?
     
  11. brian eiland
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    I've recently been contacted by a gentleman who claims to have some blueprints of the taller rigged vessel. He refers to her as 'Nimrod'. We show a photo with the name 'Relentless'.

    Possible he will be able to shed some other light on the designer and his work?

    Meantime he referenced me to some other photos:
    http://www.nahiku33.com/mw.html
     
  12. Kojii
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Ensenada, BCN

    Kojii All is remodelling

    Relentless nee Nimrod

    It was Nimrod. The photos shown were taken at Railway Marina, where we are now moored on Puget Sound.
    As in my other posting (other thread) Nimrod/Relentless is now at John Wayne Marina and has had it's keel removed (it did not go willingly), mast shortened, power plant upgraded, and a doghouse stuck on the stern. It is not the same boat. Still has a get home bipod rig only.
    I have the DWGs for the boat also. Since the boat had long since been sold by the original owners before it got to Railway, I doubt any new light will be shedding, but I'm just a skeptic...
    Orca remains intact.
     
  13. brian eiland
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Just ran across this photo on my computer and thought it fit this description pretty well. I don't think it has been posted?...and I'm sure Kojii must have sent it to me.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Kojii
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Ensenada, BCN

    Kojii All is remodelling

    Hove to

    Just wanted to add that a few days later we did heave to under staysail only. The boom made itself very useful. Very comfortable ride, well-balanced. Attached another shot from a blustery day some years ago in Oregon.
     

    Attached Files:


  15. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    A-Frame Rig on 'Catbird Suite'

    Somehow I missed ever seeing or knowing of this vessel, but here is a gentleman who is not affraid to experiement. Just happened across this vessel this afternoon. Perhaps we'll encourage the owner to add some comments to this forum.

    http://www.damsl.com/

    "The rig is my idea (tested on a smaller catamaran) with engineering and construction specifications by Malcolm Tennant and Anthony Stanton of New Zealand design team Malcolm Tennant Multihull Design (tennantdesign.co.nz), who designed the boat. Dave Pope, who was a member of the Tennant team, did the original construction drawings of this boat and has contributed a lot to development of the new rig. Dave now has his own design firm and is based in Whangarei (dpd.co.nz).

    The rig was completed in December, 2006. It works very well, is quite efficient upwind, is especially good reaching and running, and is easy to handle because all sails furl and there are other advantages as well........."


    .....more discussions, photos, and videos
     

    Attached Files:

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