What Sail To Use

Hi, Im new to boating (haven't actually been in one yet!) but I'm going to build a small (10'~14') dingy and have a go at it.

Just want to ask people what type of sail they recommend - and why.

I want a rig that is

• easy to set up and take down
• forgiving on a novice.
• can be handled by one person.
• minimum number of ropes, pulleys etc.
• doesn't need to be fast.

I see lug sails, and sprit sails, and lateens and bermuda slops (that's not a typo ) - no idea what they all are, what are the benefits or weakness of each, etc. etc.

 

get a Laser rig.

 

That was going to be my recommendation too. Simple, effective, proven.

 

Sprit - simplicity itself.

 

Simplest is a boomless bermudan sail sleeved around the mast.
In reality, it's better to say you want a sail that's not too complicated. Most all sail rigs are simple. Some mainsails are better for certain types of boats too. The hull may be tender, and so a low rig is desirable. That can often mean a squarish shape only possible from a sprit, gaff, lug, or other four-cornered sail.
Those sail rigs also have shorter spars, easier to stow inside a boat that also rows or motors.
Going without a boom is a plus for a beginner on a small boat, since mismanagement of the rig can lead to the sail swinging across at head level.
Every sail type can be used without a boom.
The other aspect of your choosing a rig type to learn sailing is sometimes, the more strings you've got to pull and adjust and trim, the more interesting and involving the experience can be. It's something like a ten speed bike. You can still ride it in the few gears you know how to use through trial and error, but at least there's more there to master later, and you won't be sorry you got the more complicated machine.
Most important, in any case, whether bicycle or boat, is that the real art is in the larger experience of dealing with the conditions presented.
Seamanship involves sail control, but sails are but a fraction of what should be mastered by anyone who goes out in a boat. Just as important are the arts of reading waves, wind, and navigating.
If I saw you out there in open water, in a boat with the most appropriate sail possible, but no bailing bucket on a short rope, or an anchor, or sailing in water of a depth unknown to you, without knowledge of local currents, no matter how well you sailed your rig, I would suggest you go back to "school".
Sailors generally learn these things sooner than motor-boaters, because they are least able to run to safety, and also because they usually consider sailing in the first place for the pleasure of learning something challenging.
As a result, I see motor boaters all the time who know next to nothing of seamanship, meaning they often have only a couple of poor scraps of weak convenience store rope aboard, no air horn or whistle, no anchor (except possibly a cute plastic-covered tiny mushroom on some polypropolene line), zero bailing bucket, no flashlight, binoculars, oars (just a cheap plastic paddle), no sense of where North is, no compass, pliers, screwdriver, or anything else that's useful.
Rig type, therefore, is far less of an issue than knowledge of boating in general.
I've always considered sailing in this larger perspective. Better question, is do you know how to tie a bowline in the dark in less than five seconds, how to deal with a sudden squall, or what equipment you absolutely should take along whenever you go out on the water.

Alan

 

Thanks again guys. Alan, I'd thought about binoculars, compass, anchor - never occurred to me I'd need a bucket on a string.
We've got a small local Classic Boat Regatta coming up shortly, I hope to seek out the local sailing club there. I'm not going anywhere I cant walk back from until I Know (with a capital K) how to sail.

As to the sail, I was thinking something not too tall (so I could stow it easy), and no stays to set up.
The boat I'm considering now has a 'bucket' cross section, flat bottom, almost vertical sides. I only intend using it in lakes and rivers, often quite shallow. The designer has illustrated a number of sail options, none of them bermudan, so I guess it could be a little tippy.

Hey: If anyone else stumbles across this thread, just found an illuminating web page at http://www.transitionrig.com/rigs.htm
From what I hear here, and on the web page above, a gaf or sprit, without a boom, might be easier to learn with, especially when it cones to tacking.

Now all I need is a web page that tells be which ropes go where...

 

There are a lot of books out there. A lot of them are geared towards beginners. You may be better at choosing one than anyone here, since you will see it all from a perspective of being full of questions, which, in the right book, are answered clearly and appropriately.
Without a boom, reefing is more clumsy, but small boats don't often reef. The boom also 'carries though' a tack smoothly, its own weight being vital to the operation---- but on a small boat, this isn't a concern because it will tack like a champ just by moving your weight forward.
The boom is not fun to be clocked in the head with, something that no one here is unaware of. This happens when the wind is behind you to port, and then behind you to starboard, or the reverse, enough to get ahead of the sail for a moment--- and that's a gybe.
The sprit is much simpler than the gaff, having only one halyard (or none). It can easily be brailed too, which means the sail can be tied up onto the mast just by releasing the snotter, holding the sprit veryical, and rolling the sail up around the sprit until it's against the mast. Then the mast can be dropped and stowed if desired. It's only complaint is that on one tack, the sprit is pressed against the sail, which is slightly less efficient.
Either sail, boomless, must have a good sheet lead from the sail to the boat, preferrably adjustable for and aft to maintain proper sail shape. The boom normally makes this unnecsessary, but any boomless rig must absolutely have a point far enough aft to secure the sheet so that the foot of the sail has enough tension. Your boat, in other words, is either long enough for the position and shape of the sail, or not. Ideally, you want a point in a line somewhat ahead of bisecting the angles of the aft corner of the sail. Bear this in mind when putting a boat and a sail together.

Alan

 

OK - so getting slightly away from the idea of a 'simple' rig, if you combined a Sprit and a Lug (a Slug sail?) and got something that looked like this, would it work?


click to enlarge

I haven't seen it anywhere, but to the uninitialted it appears to make sense.

Problem:
When a sail is all behind the mast the mast has to be way forward or sail size is limited, and all the weight/stress is on one side of the mast.
If the sail overlaps the mast (like a balanced lug) it appears you have to move the spar around the mast to tack!

Solution:
In the diagram above the spars are mounted (and hinged) on a rotating bracket, so the foresail is on the opposite side of the boat as the mainsail.
The mailsail could be boomless, have a boom, or have an upswept boom (saw that somewhere on a Lug) that goes above noggin's.
Ropes down the centre of the mast could raise it. If they're attached to the far end of the spar via pulleys, once the sail reached the top of the mast tensioning the ropes would raise the end of the spar and tighten the sail, maybe?

Hey, I haven't worked out all the physics (probably never could) but someone must have tried this, somewhere, sometime??

BTW: diagram not to scale


Simon.

 

Simon;
Forget the trick sail stuff. Learn to sail first, after that you can let your imagination take wing. Alan has suggested a sprit boomed sail. He is spot on. It is simple, will not bust your noggin, easy to handle, can be adjusted for many sailing conditions, and it is relatively inexpensive. Have a real sailmaker provide it and you'll save a lot of disappointment.

 

OK, thanks.
My imagination will always run wild, but I'll stick with the 'tried and true', at least until I know what I'm doing .

Concensus seems to be a Sprit rig, so I'll aim to go with that, it looks like a good idea to me.

What Alan says suggests that a boomed sprit might be easy to manouver, but a boomless would be less painful (for passengers at least)?
Could you use the same sail, with and without a boom (depending on whether you have passengers to hit), or are there differences that would require two separate sails?

 

Actually, I meant mainsails in general... sprits rarely have booms. You'll be happy with the sprit rig. Two sticks, one big and one small, easily scandalized (look that one up!), and it laces on, needs only a few grommets on the leading edge and so it's a cheap sail to make. You can make the spars yourself from doug fir or spruce.
You can add a boom, but I wouldn't. It won't brail easily with a boom, or if unattached, the boom is in the way of rowing.

Alan

 

Thanks Bateau - best (simple) explaination of setting up a sprit sail.
Anyone else following this thread that wants to do the same - read this.
http://bateau2.com/content/view/81/28/

 

One more question - sail material, what do they make sails out of?

I've found oodles of sites that show you how to make a cheap polytarp alternative, but alternative to what?

Can you just go down a material shop and buy sail cloth?
Is there an adaquate material that you can buy? - I imagine sail cloth is expensive.

 

PsiPhi - I've mentioned this before (older members can switch off) but I've discovered one of the cheapest 'sail' materials around is to check your local Vincent de Paul - Salvos, or Op shop for secondhand tents - preferably the 'family' sized. A razor down the seams and an hour or so on the sewing machine will whip up a 'first serviceable sail' for a 10 - 14 foot dinghy.

Check out the 'free' sail patterns on the internet and follow their suggestions. Include quarter inch diametre nylon cord in the seams; reinforce with extra patches of the 'tent' material at the corners, and on the lower edge sew in a slight curve (deeper towards the mast end to create an aerofoil shape) by 'rucking' the sail as you add the nylon to the sail material.

Add a double layer of material either side at the mast edge, and add brass eyelets for lacing.

The last small sprit sail I made for a dinghy (2006) using the above materials from the above outlets cost me Au$10.00. Good luck - and as you work you'll get to know more about sail settings than in buying a ready made set first off, and when you see her fill out - you'll gain an insight into why sails need to be shaped - and note where you went wrong - or where and how it could be improved.

 

Main sails and jibs are normally made from a polyester called dacron (known as terylene in the US). Spinnakers are normally made from nylon (like Max's tent idea - showing your Scottish roots there!).