Wingboat Design

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by MasterBlaster, May 25, 2003.

  1. MasterBlaster
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    MasterBlaster Junior Member

    Hello everyone,
    The image posted is of a jet-powered wingboat design (it extends the logic of the tunnel hull design to the point where the entire craft is lifted out of the water on an induced cushion of air). As the design progresses I will post more work. I realize that I havent provided enough information, but as I go along. Please tell me if I am doing something wrong headed.

    Also, if someone has links to hydrodynamics, and the role of steps and chines in hull design, I would be greatful.
     

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  2. Peter_T
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    Peter_T Junior Member

    You intended to take this as plane at the high speed runs. The wing area may take the stern up. Looking at the forebody, it seems there is not sufficient cushion surface, neither a tunnel can help in a sharp bow configuration. You need something to lift the forebody up. Perhaps extend the wings to delta forward.

    A good perspective view presented. Show us the profile view to help in identifying other aspects. You will need to explore how the "Reverse delta wings" work when activated. Another view will do the trick.

    Peter
     
  3. yipster
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    yipster designer

    hello Masterblaster,
    now thats what i call an awesome drawing and interesting design yet many questions spring to mind... like Peter, i too look forward to more info on this wig design. yipster :)
     
  4. SailDesign
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    SailDesign Old Phart! Stay upwind..

    Peter T - I'll see your concerns about the nose falling, and raise you a pair of tailerons. ;-)
    From the positioning of the weights (visible) on this thang, I'd say that the nose will be fine, and the dynamics will take care of it. My worry would be that it will be tough to get this thing going fast enough to create sufficient lift to break free, but I'm not a WIG expert by any means.

    MasterBlaster - do you always scribble on your renderings like that? ;-P
    Nice looking beast. I did some work on a WIG for Wingship a few years ago, Florida-based, but never got off the ground (pun intended)

    Steve
     
  5. MasterBlaster
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    MasterBlaster Junior Member

    update

    Peter_T, Yipster , and Sail Design.
    Thanx for your input so far.

    Peter_T: I think that you may be right about the forebody. I extended the wings forward so that the lift forces can be more balanced. I have been a little harried with work projects, so I have not been able to do any work on updates. The cockpit looks a little to large I'll be changing that as I progress


    Yipster: thank you for your compliments. I am following your own work in progress and am interested in how it turns out

    Sail Design: What are tailerons? Would they be something like canards? About the rendering, I can get a little top brisk in my quick sketches :) Do you have any advice from your WIG experience?

    I will post a profile later tonight and sections soon. I would like some input on the overall hull design. It needs to be hydrodynamic enough to get over the hump drag and get the body airborne so that ground effects can come into play. So you can wait till I post more views.
     

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  6. SailDesign
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    SailDesign Old Phart! Stay upwind..

    Blaster - Tailerons are what you have - outwardly inclined tail fins that(if not linked) can be used as rudders (rotating in unison) or ailerons (rotating in opposition)
    Only other advice would be to keep the "tips" of the wings parallel to the centreline, or your take-off drag will be humungous. Get the cushion by reducing the tunnel height.
    Steve
     
  7. Tim B
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    Tim B Senior Member

    MasterBlaster,

    Check out the Bladerunner (Built by Ice marine backin '99/2000), and some of the class 1 offshore and unlimited hydroplanes. Driven by the likes of Steve Curtis, Fabio Buzzi and Edoaro Polli. They are not truly wing in ground effect boats, but they may give you some ideas. I beleive the class 1 boys use controllable vents in the wings, thereby reducing the pressure, bringing the bow back up. Also, I remember a book called 'Dhows to Deltas' I can't remember who wrote it, but it has now gone out of print. Though I have access to a copy (for the next few weeks, so I'll have a look and post what I think may be useful. Probably scan it and post it as a .zip file (the appropriate pages, that is, not the book).
    Also, NACA may have some now public papers on similar subjects, from the 1917 to 1958. A lot of the research has now been superseded or is irrelevent, but some may just throw in an alternative thought. see http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/

    Good Luck,

    Tim B
     
  8. Tim B
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    Tim B Senior Member

  9. yipster
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    yipster designer

    http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/ is really a great site, on "wig" no result but on "boat" 78 results that are very intereresting readings on flying boats, who dares doing a deeper search? :eek:
     
  10. SailDesign
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    SailDesign Old Phart! Stay upwind..

  11. Tim B
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    Tim B Senior Member

    I have had a look at the NACA site again, the best serach is probably "ground effect AND wing" I'm also looking for articles on Tailless aircraft aerofoil design, since the aft 'wing' is the same design problem.

    From Dhows to Deltas (aformentioned) Written by Renato Levi, the following (some quoted, some summarised):

    "The propeller, or propellers, and rudder, or rudders, should be as far aft so that they are the last portion of the craft to leave the water, and the first to re-enter it." Page 217

    Winged Monohulls (From Pages 160, 161)

    [appreciable reduction in wetted surface area over a catarmaran]

    [Inherent lateral instability, could be overcome by properly designed wings with the right amount of dihedral built in.]

    [Could be difficult to execute tight turns. Use of 'chine wedges' {or strakes} to solve problem of excessive heel.]

    Ramwings (pages 165-168):
    Previous Ramwings: American glider and aircraft company 'switzer'
    Japan 1963 by the Kawasaki aircraft company.

    suggestion of aerodynamic controls for pitch and direction.

    "In the ram-wing this {central tie-up/wing} is an aerofoil of proven aerodynamic properties, which has been tested in wind tunnels so as to ascertain such details as center of pressure location of Lift/Drag ratio and so on" Page 165

    Renato Levi continues to mention the importance of C.G. in relation to the center of pressure.

    Good Luck,

    Tim B.
     
  12. MasterBlaster
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    MasterBlaster Junior Member

    Dang guys I am sorry that I am not posting faster. I am getting swamped with stupid projects. I am currently working on lowering the wing height. I was worried that the hull would not cut through the water. Ill have to reduce the wing height from the waterline so that it barely skims while cruising
    Thanks for the links TImB, and SailDesign.
     
  13. Tim B
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    Tim B Senior Member

    Ok,
    Here are the titles of four research papers which may just help. They're well worth a read anyway:

    "Ground Influence on Aerofoils" - Arthur E. Raymond - 1921

    "A Full-Scale Investigation of Ground Effect" - Elliott G. Reid - 1926

    "Wind Tunnel Investigation of Ground Effect on Wings with Flaps" - Isidore G. Recant - 1939

    "Ground Effect on Downwash Angles and Wake Location" - S. Katzoff and Harold H. Sweberg - 1941


    Some other interesting papers would be:

    "Wing Resistance Near The Ground" - Wieselsberger, C. - 1922

    "Effect Of The Ground On An Airplane Flying Close To It" - Tonnies, E. - 1932

    "Ground Effect - Theory and Practice" - Pistolesi, E. - 1937

    If anyone knows of a copy of any of the last three, I'd be very interested to see it. Incidentally, these are all NACA reports.

    I haven't found any Tailless design stuff yet, but I know I have some, so I'll have a look over the next few days.

    Good Luck and Good Reading,

    Tim B.
     
  14. Tim B
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    Tim B Senior Member


  15. Dim
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    Dim Senior Member

    NACA reports

    It can be possible to find on a site http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/
    But I think, that they can be till now for the "limited access",
    not looking on years of issuing. If it is honest, at speedly review I them have not found.
    See the next page.

    Dim.
     
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