winding carbon fiber yarns

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by Schoonner, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. Schoonner
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Washington State USA

    Schoonner Senior Member

    Would it be a good idea to wind carbon fiber in a pattern around plastic straw mesh frames to make a thick wall of thread that is laid up by running it through a straw full of resin that is partially crimped so that the thread is pulled through a resin bath? I could probably start to make a hull starting with straws and carbon fiber threads. I would wrap it in such a way that I would end up with three layers of straws that have been slowly laid up by hand and squishedby the moderately tight threads into a honeycomb shape.

    If I made a mold, wrapped the mold in a tight net of carbon fiber that the shuttle would run easily through and wove the whole section like a knot it would probably have some real holding power and might even be water tight already it wrapped right.If I made the straws in sections like bamboo and sealed the ends with a hot knife so that they held air they would hold the right form as well as air and as far as I know air floats in water. It might not sink all the way in the water even if the hull was breached.

    Maybe for big boats I could use hoses like garden hoses and layup carbon fiber and kevlar blend tapes over them.

    [​IMG]

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
     
  2. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    i have looked at this a couple of times and stll cant get what the hell you are talking about . like a million other people world wide .maybe that why there have been no answers .

    Do you have trouble sleeping at night ??? :D
     
  3. Schoonner
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    It is difficult for me to explain things. I do have insomnia, and my thoughts are really really involved.

    Okay, the thick round pieces in the drawing are supposed to be plastic drinking straws.

    Imagine this, I would tie together three rows of drinking straws and wrap the carbon fiber around and between the straws to make a layup. I would use another straw, run the yarn through the straw and pinch the end where the yarn comes out when it is being laid up. I would fill the straw from the other end with resin and pull the yarn through the resin as I wrapped it onto the other straws. Maybe a metal tube would be better because It might get too hot?

    Basically, I'm using plastic straws as a mold to wrap yarn around. As I wrap the yarn I'm wetting it with resin all the way around the thickness of the yarn so that there are no gaps in resin like there would be if I tried to brush the resin into it after I laid it up.

    I think that the resin will not actually stick to the straws so that when the resin cures I can pull the straws back out and fill the holes with fiberglass insulation leaving a light, strong, thick insulated, and water tight hexagon centered carbon fiber mesh panel.

    It would cause the yarn to be wrapped in a hexagon shape around the straws and therefore be the strongest shape I can make it while making it light weight because of the three hollow rows in it. It would be thick, strong, and hollow in the center with supports across the hollow space.

    It might make a boat hull that would float even if the hull was completely full of water because the straw holes would become like a ballast tank on a submarine. Even if the hull were severely damaged it would have to damage a LARGE percentage of the entire hull. Even then, the hollows might trap enough air to keep the boat floating.

    It's just an idea...
     
  4. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    :pI had a friend once that used to turn up to weddings uninvited and cause al kinds a havic claiming to be a distant relation to one or the other or both untill the bride was in tears and then he would anounce oops wrong wedding and promptly walk out and clain he was the brides first husband and they has kids and all kinds a stories you cold either take it as a great big joke or get reall angry and thrown himout but it was amazing the people that would go into histserics and end up taking him to the party after . So are you one of thse kinds a people ??
    Take care an d take something for you ailment and get some sleep !!
    :):D
     
  5. Schoonner
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    No this is not a joke. It is a valid question. Is is possible to wrap yarn around something and make a hollow core weave that is light weight, has more tendency to float, and will be really strong?
     
  6. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Winding Yarn's ?...Is this like telling sea stories ?? Arr Matey
     
  7. Schoonner
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    Fine, I'll just try it myself and see if it works. The cheap stuff if difficult to wet. that's why I was filling a straw with resin and coating the thread, filament, fiber, yarn, whatever.

    Carbon fiber filaments are finer than a human hair. These filaments are bundled together to make a fiber of 3,000, 6,000 or 12,000 filaments which is called a “tow”. The tow is sized with an epoxy compatible material to improve the handling characteristics. It is then wound on a cardboard core holding from 4 to 6 pounds of fiber. 1 Lb. spool. It appears that the 6K tow will prove most practical for homebuilding applications. This size will be available in the small units shown. The 3K and 12K sizes are offered in full spools only. The 3K tow is used primarily by weavers. The 12K is difficult to wet out but can be done by diligent brushing.
     
  8. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    braid !!

    you can buy braided glass sox by the metre , by the roll by the kilometre in carbon ,kevlar, glass and combinations of them all and in a range of colours of the rainbow so why you want to muck about reinventing the wheel when they already come in all kinds a shapes and sizes and colors ?? Braided fabrics !!:confused::?:

    http://www.alibaba.com/promotion/promotion_fibre-glass-braid-promotion-list.html just the basis !

    http://www.sollerpaddles.com/composites/carbon fiber sleeves.html This one goes completely overboard and has multicolored braids !!!
     
  9. Schoonner
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    COOL! I've never seen braided fiberglass that is workable like that, it always wants to break instead of layup. Hence the reason for carbon fiber... That and some epoxy would be perfect.

    I will have to show you with some better drawings or something. Basically, I'm making a whole plank the thickness of three rows of plastic straws. Like a thatch roof maybe?, Maybe think of a giant hull-shaped wicker basket three rows thick out of composties? It is a weave kind of like that, but more dense except for the intended hollows. I came up with a way to weave only triangles into it, but still make a hexagon in the center.

    It is quite basket like come to think of it.

    EDIT:: Maybe I should show you with some pencils and string?

    EDIT2:: OH, Now I get the sleeve things. I like the idea of having blends of carbon fiber and kevlar, but straws or plastic hoses might be less expensive and reusable. Then again, I also want it to be in sections like bamboo so that they are airtight if I can do it that way... like miniature water tight bulkheads throughout the hull.

    EDIT3:: I just found the term I was looking for. It is called reserve buoyancy. If the hull is full of water tight air pockets, albeit thin and long, yet numerous, wouldn't it increase the reserve buoyancy?
     
  10. MechaNik
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    MechaNik Senior Member

    Ok ,I think I get it. You want to make a large scale Crystal Lattice using the straws and yarn? Then the voids will give you reserve buoyancy?
    If so then carbon fibre so applied is not a good choice of material and would not be complementary. Form core (closed cell foam) is already water proof and although buoyant will help little in reserve buoyancy of a yacht. For any material to aid in buoyancy it would be taking up significant interior volume, after all displacement is the submerged volume.
     
  11. Schoonner
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    What does that mean, 'displacement is the submerged volume'?

    I realize that there is foam core stuff, but wouldn't the carbon fiber lattice be tons stonger and probably only a little heavier?
     
  12. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Its what make em float matey !! Think you better get back to A log in the water then hollow the log , then try making one end pointy By the time you worked on that you could have found the answer to why floaty things dont sink !! How about concrete boats !! How can concrete float , And steel it will float and aluminium it floats and flys !! wow now that confussing . :eek::confused::?:
     
  13. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Being mostly water himself, it's a wonder he floats . . .
     
  14. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Its the void type space place between the ears ??:D
     
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  15. Schoonner
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Schoonner Senior Member

    Okay, I've never heard it called that before. :cool:

    So concrete floats huh? I guess if you made it thin enough over a large enough area and shaped like a bowl anything will float now that I thinks abouts it, all it has to do is trap enough air or other light weight stuff to be lighter than 8lbs per gallon... err something like that right?

    <walks over to the google library and Poof! disappears for several months...>
     
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