Wild Oats XI-One of the Greatest Ocean Racers of All time!

[NoEyeDeer]

Could the mods move this to the motor sailer forum? Just for a bit of fun?

I second the motion. It'd be totally worth it just for the entertainment of watching Doug spit chips.

Come on, mods. You know you want to.

 

[rcnesneg]

Haha yes! Motorsailor section!

Can they not generate enough power off of a wind or water generator stuck on the back? Seems like that and human labor would help, along with some way of storing the energy for bursts.

 

[CT249]

I rather like the idea of using systems similar to the AC, where the hydraulics are powered by humans. It'd give the crew something to do apart from sitting on the rail, and would mean you could throw out the massive diesel and save some weight.

Any energy storage that is ultimately powered by the crew would be totally fine by me, providing it wasn't used to actually propel the boat via a prop or jet or dirty great windmill. In fact I can even see this resulting in useful spin-offs for cruisers.

The problem is that winning could then mean that sailors then spend hours at a time spinning stationary bicycles down below to provide power, or something equally unpleasant.

It's not hard to visualise a chain gang spinning away down below on a stinking hot day when a calm has settled over Bass Strait after a big southerly. Sailors pedalling for hours at a time to waggle the keel and wind winches to rock and pump the boat and rig.....throwing up into the bilges because standing up down below in a leftover swell is unpleasant, gasping for air because there's no draft, backsides bleeding from the combination of saddle sores and salt water. Tactics and trim largely ignored because it's more efficient to devote all the available effort to turning pedals. And of course the level of experience on the boats, so vital in heavy conditions, will be lower because younger men can create much more power so the more experienced hands (over 35s) would be discarded. Women would be unlikely to be seen on competitive yachts, unless of course there is a sharp divide between sailors and galley slaves.

I race bikes for fun and I've done serious competition in sailing classes that allow pumping, and those experiences mean that I'd hate to see crews toiling away at creating power. It could also be relevant that the offshore races that do (or did) allow crews to propel boats have never attracted very strong fleets.

The alternative, of course, is to simply accept that sailing is a sport in which we harness the power of the wind in manually-handled sails and use stored power only for communication and illumination, just as in so many other sports.

Using manual power instead of wind power to drive a craft can really harm the sport. Windsurfer racing collapsed when unrestricted pumping was brought in. In many ways the powered canting 100 footers are the least popular "supermaxi" we've seen in many, many years which indicates that they attract very few owners, too.

It's interesting to see how few canters are being built these days for the ORCi, PHRF, IRC racing that most of the world prefers. Almost everyone has voted to stay with simple fixed keelers and manual winches.

 

[bpw]

Calling Wild Oats XI a "motorsailer" is hilarious.........

What is even funnier is that unlike Wild Oats, most motor sailors will do pretty well without their engines.

Its a cool video, but I doubt anyone will have much memory of Wild Oats 30 years from now. Not really a game changing boat, she has done well in the Sydney-Hobart, but that is about it.

I would really like to see sailboat racing go back to no engines allowed. Sure the boats go faster with powered canting keels, but outright speed really isn't the point. Now, if someone can figure out how to run the canting keel off a water generator, that would be cool.

 

[rcnesneg]

The big trimarans don't seem to have any trouble blowing the socks off of any of these slow monohulls. They don't use generators... as far as I know...

 

[NoEyeDeer]

The problem is that winning could then mean that sailors then spend hours at a time spinning stationary bicycles down below to provide power, or something equally unpleasant.

It's not hard to visualise a chain gang spinning away down below on a stinking hot day when a calm has settled over Bass Strait after a big southerly. Sailors pedalling for hours at a time to waggle the keel and wind winches to rock and pump the boat and rig.....throwing up into the bilges because standing up down below in a leftover swell is unpleasant, gasping for air because there's no draft, backsides bleeding from the combination of saddle sores and salt water. Tactics and trim largely ignored because it's more efficient to devote all the available effort to turning pedals. And of course the level of experience on the boats, so vital in heavy conditions, will be lower because younger men can create much more power so the more experienced hands (over 35s) would be discarded. Women would be unlikely to be seen on competitive yachts, unless of course there is a sharp divide between sailors and galley slaves.

I race bikes for fun and I've done serious competition in sailing classes that allow pumping, and those experiences mean that I'd hate to see crews toiling away at creating power. It could also be relevant that the offshore races that do (or did) allow crews to propel boats have never attracted very strong fleets.

The alternative, of course, is to simply accept that sailing is a sport in which we harness the power of the wind in manually-handled sails and use stored power only for communication and illumination, just as in so many other sports.

Using manual power instead of wind power to drive a craft can really harm the sport. Windsurfer racing collapsed when unrestricted pumping was brought in. In many ways the powered canting 100 footers are the least popular "supermaxi" we've seen in many, many years which indicates that they attract very few owners, too.

It's interesting to see how few canters are being built these days for the ORCi, PHRF, IRC racing that most of the world prefers. Almost everyone has voted to stay with simple fixed keelers and manual winches.

Ok, fair points.

 

[Gary Baigent]

Actually the DSS changes to Wild Oats COULD counter the stupid always running diesel if they took the foil power assist design to the logical limit - same on the VOR 65s ... but probably too radical for those chappies. They prefer to have/carry tonnes of water on deck.
They're all a piss poor joke in the reality of sailing because "clean" multihulls just kill/assassinate the mono motor sailers in terms of speed and mileage.
But the foil lift designs could be the answer monohulls require. Then you'd have a small team of blokes below winching/pedaling the big foil across during tacks/gybes - instead of an always running stinker.
Kind of obvious where the direction is going to go? They'll be faster too, being narrower, lighter more powerful etc.
The stinker assists will then just be a short term aberration in the history of SAIL?

 

[pdwiley]

I heard from a usually reliable source that a Westsnail could beat WOXI in a race from San Francisco to Hawaii...... because WOXI can't carry enough fuel to make it that far.

If true - ROFLMAO. And *this* is the sort of sailboat Doug thinks we should think is wonderful? It's as specialised as a drag racer, and just as useful as a learning platform (except what NOT to aspire to).

PDW

 

[Joakim]

What is the engine used for in WOXI? Just to provide elctricity or actually drive hydraulics? How many tacks/jibes are there in Sydney Hobart? Do they run the engine even while sailing several hours on the same tack?

What systems use the engine or power? Is the keel hydraulics even the most power hungry system? Imoca and VOR boats seem to handle canting keels in very long races and thus with very little engine use.

 

[whitepointer23]

What is the engine used for in WOXI? Just to provide elctricity or actually drive hydraulics? How many tacks/jibes are there in Sydney Hobart? Do they run the engine even while sailing several hours on the same tack?

What systems use the engine or power? Is the keel hydraulics even the most power hungry system? Imoca and VOR boats seem to handle canting keels in very long races and thus with very little engine use.

Winchs are hyd to as far as I know. You could probably program oats to sail from Sydney to Hobart without humans.

 

[whitepointer23]

I laughed when I had a look at dougs threads. He has been defending wild oats diesel since 2005 and he still won't give up.

 

[NoEyeDeer]

As soon as he sees an underwater configuration like a Swiss Army knife he morphs into Don Quixote defending the honour of his Dulcinea.

 

[Doug Lord]

Comanche

Calling all retro dudes and other interested parties- look at the canting keel on Comanche:

 

[rcnesneg]

Still, You gotta admit though, Wild oats XI is a pretty impressive boat, especially for a monohull, and very fast, even if it may be a motorsailor.

 

[pdwiley]

Calling all retro dudes and other interested parties- look at the canting keel on Comanche:

Who gives a damn about that stupid flapper - I want the *mill*!!!

PDW